What is every base morph and which lay on the same allele?

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

I understand what you are saying. Its just that when the majority of people start looking at things or believing things to be one way and then you find out its otherwise, it makes changing it to the right way that much harder. Look at Hypo/Ghost, they are Hypos not Ghosts.
Calling a snake that does not produce an all white snake with blue eyes a BEL is confusing to other people. It isn't a BEL but yet people are referring to them as BEL's because a few breeders say they are so. If we had the facts to prove so then fine but just saying it is so doesn't make it so.

Partial sequencing is around $500 now with a 20k price tag for a full genome sequencing. That 20k is a drop from 40k last year. Within the next couple of years full sequencing is expected to be about 1k. This is also pricing for humans.

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yea i never understood why people call them ghosts in the first place, correct me if i'm wrong but im sure corn snakes had a ghost before ball pythons. I call them hypos and only hypos. hopefully it will follow suit. i feel stupid calling a hypo/axanthic a true ghost lol.

another thing that bother me is calling a super mojave a BEL, call it super mojave, heck alot of them are more yellow than white.

I understand what your saying but it seems like to totally comply with what you want we would have to call everything "morph 1" "morph 2" "morph 3" ect. until we can 100% prove thats what it is. while some things can be confusing, we like to name things, and i bet even alot of people on here found this forum because they were wondering "what the heck is going on" lol.

I see no problem calling a super lesser a BEL, atleast it looks like one, when you get things like white diamond or super mojave....i have to agree with you.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Would "platy complex" be a better name since that was the first known combo of alleles in this complex?

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i think it would be a never ending arguement now that i think about it

"Would "platy complex" be a better name since that was the first known combo of alleles in this complex?"
"No, its been called the BEL complex for how many years"
"But not everything makes a BEL and confuses people who don't know"
""But not everything makes a platy and would confuses people who don't know"
ect.

im not arguing that it makes a "non-bel". but regardless it still works and acts the way i and the other posters said it does. the fact of what it makes does not change where the genes are located, or the fact that they react together and that you can only have any 2 copies of any of the genes in that complex. so yes that does make you wrong, in the fact that you are arguing proven fact with nothing but your "opinion" to back it up. like i said show me a mojave lesser mystic phantom, then you will be right in that they aren't on the same locus and part of the same "complex".

Many genes have more than two alleles (even though any one diploid individual can only have at most two alleles for any gene), such as the ABO blood groups in humans, which are an example of multiple alleles. Multiple alleles result from different mutations of the same gene. Coat color in rabbits is determined by four alleles. Human ABO blood types are determined by alleles A, B, and O. A and B are codominants which are both dominant over O. The only possible genotype for a type O person is OO. Type A people have either AA or AO genotypes. Type B people have either BB or BO genotypes. Type AB have only the AB (heterozygous) genotype. The A and B alleles of gene I produce slightly different glycoproteins (antigens) that are on the surface of each cell. Homozygous A individuals have only the A antigen, homozygous B individuals have only the B antigen, homozygous O individuals produce neither antigen, while a fourth phenotype (AB) produces both A and B antigens.


For one locus with multiple alleles, there are many dierent heterozygote genotypes.
As a result, there is not a unique pattern identiable as \heterozygote advantage,"
and selection may eliminate one or more alleles at equilibrium even if all heterozygotes
have a higher tness than all homozygotes.


Polygenic inheritance, also known as quantitative or multifactorial inheritance refers to inheritance of a phenotypic characteristic (trait) that is attributable to two or more genes, or the interaction with the environment, or both. Unlike monogenic traits, polygenic traits do not follow patterns of Mendelian inheritance (separated traits). Instead, their phenotypes typically vary along a continuous gradient depicted by a bell curve.

An example of a polygenic trait is human skin color. Many genes factor into determining a person's natural skin color, so modifying only one of those genes changes the color only slightly. Many disorders with genetic components are polygenic, including autism, cancer, diabetes and numerous others. Most phenotypic characteristics are the result of the interaction of multiple genes.

reptile genetics are far far far more different than mammal genetics. not to mention you still didnt show me a lesser phantom mojave mystic

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Many genes have more than two alleles (even though any one diploid individual can only have at most two alleles for any gene), such as the ABO blood groups in humans, which are an example of multiple alleles. Multiple alleles result from different mutations of the same gene. Coat color in rabbits is determined by four alleles. Human ABO blood types are determined by alleles A, B, and O. A and B are codominants which are both dominant over O. The only possible genotype for a type O person is OO. Type A people have either AA or AO genotypes. Type B people have either BB or BO genotypes. Type AB have only the AB (heterozygous) genotype. The A and B alleles of gene I produce slightly different glycoproteins (antigens) that are on the surface of each cell. Homozygous A individuals have only the A antigen, homozygous B individuals have only the B antigen, homozygous O individuals produce neither antigen, while a fourth phenotype (AB) produces both A and B antigens.


For one locus with multiple alleles, there are many dierent heterozygote genotypes.
As a result, there is not a unique pattern identiable as \heterozygote advantage,"
and selection may eliminate one or more alleles at equilibrium even if all heterozygotes
have a higher tness than all homozygotes.


Polygenic inheritance, also known as quantitative or multifactorial inheritance refers to inheritance of a phenotypic characteristic (trait) that is attributable to two or more genes, or the interaction with the environment, or both. Unlike monogenic traits, polygenic traits do not follow patterns of Mendelian inheritance (separated traits). Instead, their phenotypes typically vary along a continuous gradient depicted by a bell curve.

An example of a polygenic trait is human skin color. Many genes factor into determining a person's natural skin color, so modifying only one of those genes changes the color only slightly. Many disorders with genetic components are polygenic, including autism, cancer, diabetes and numerous others. Most phenotypic characteristics are the result of the interaction of multiple genes.

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ok im trying to understand, but if any of the complexs had more than 2 alleles, wouldn't you be able to get a normal from a BEL breeding a normal? also I don't quite understand the blood types, from what I understand and putting it into snake genetic terms OO (normal) and A (Lesser) and B (mojave) would both be in the same complex. therefore you can get OO AA BB AO BO or AB? All seem to follow what was said unless im misunderstanding something?

Rest of what you posted I don't really seem to understand how it relates to what were talking about. If your point out that gene can be more complicated... obviously yes they can, but there is nothing that suggests this as far as complexs go. and the last part, If the point was multiple gene can change phenotypes, then i would just compare that to a bumblebee, mulltiple genes.

Ok so I have contacted the breeders that were said to have first produced each of the morphs that were in question from my list. The lemon and mandarin pastel are just different looks of the pastel. The speckled has been proven out by Mark Haas three years ago. Hope this helps out. I am still waiting to hear back about a couple of the others.

Tessada, I agree that the term "BEL complex" is confusing since they certainly don't all produce leucistic animals. Unfortunately that's the name that has stuck, though ...

I don't really get what you're driving at with your last post, though ..? Yup ABO in man is an example of multiple different alleles for a given locus w/in the population, and yep that's what we're suggesting is the case with the BEL/platty/neato-looking-snake locus, whatever you want to call it ... People just call it the "BEL complex" 'cos so many of 'em make a blue-eyed leucistic when bred together, even though they don't all ...

I feel like at this point we're all pretty much agreeing, just arguing over semantics ..?

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Originally Posted by RemysBalls

Ok so I have contacted the breeders that were said to have first produced each of the morphs that were in question from my list. The lemon and mandarin pastel are just different looks of the pastel. The speckled has been proven out by Mark Haas three years ago. Hope this helps out. I am still waiting to hear back about a couple of the others.

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thank you, my question is still is the speckled just another line of granite, has he made a granite speckled? that would be the deciding factor if you ask me.