Maternally Incubating Again =)

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Originally Posted by mykee

QT:

Actually, the exact opposite is true. Ball pythons are one of the few snakes that cannot alter the temps or humidity of their environment for the time that they are "babysitting" their eggs.

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I've always heard the opposite of what your stating here as well. Humidity is easy...all they have to do is pee... :D I thought they could tense and twitch their muscles to produce a little extra heat while laying on eggs though. :confused:

This is a really cool thread. I'm definitely going to have to let one maternally incubate just to see the whole process first hand. I was wondering about the interaction of the babies and mother as they pip...

Thanks for all the info you've passed on your experiences...:gj:

You've really sparked my interest in doing this.

I'm planning on next year being the first year for breeding. I've got a few questions.

-How soon after laying did you start to offer food?
-Would you only use mulch for the substrate, or would paper towels work?
-Do you periodically remove the moms to weigh them?

Good job on your clutches. Good luck with them, too. :gj:

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Originally Posted by qinw

hi bro.. i intend to do maternally incubating too if i had a chance to breed my ball.. may i ask wat is inside a lay box? when shld i put the lay box in the main tank? wat size is suitable for a lay box? is lay box a must? sorry if i ask too much.. but is my first time.. better be safe than sorry.. :)

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Not a bro. ;)

When I made a laybox, it was a 31qt Sterilite tub and I lined it with about two inches of moistened sphagnum moss.
Here's a link to my a thread on my first experience with maternal incubation.

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Originally Posted by mykee

QT:

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"I read somewhere that balls are one of the few snakes capable of altering their body heat and the reason being so that females can have more control over the temp of their eggs."

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Actually, the exact opposite is true. Ball pythons are one of the few snakes that cannot alter the temps or humidity of their environment for the time that they are "babysitting" their eggs.

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I don't recall saying that? They can't alter temp through shivering like other pythons but they can leave their eggs to bask and return to brood after their body has warmed up. I have not observed this with my females, obviously, but I have read about it in an article on wild ball pythons. As for humidity, the females can alter the humidity within their coils by tightening or loosening them (I can see and feel light condensation on the female's belly and her eggs when I've peeked in to candle eggs and the rest of the tub is dry) and they can urinate within their coils if there is no moisture available to them. Thankfully, I have not noticed this with either of my females. At least, I don't think that I have. I would think that I would have noticed an odor and I haven't.

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Originally Posted by JEWSKIN

i can not wait to see ur results from the maternal incubation I'm going to take pics of lucy either sunday or monday and see if I cant get some candling pics for everyone

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Thanks. Today makes Day 52 and 49 for these two clutches so I should have babies in the next few days. I would be surprised if I don't have pips in the older clutch tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by ClarkT

You've really sparked my interest in doing this.

I'm planning on next year being the first year for breeding. I've got a few questions.

-How soon after laying did you start to offer food?
-Would you only use mulch for the substrate, or would paper towels work?
-Do you periodically remove the moms to weigh them?

Good job on your clutches. Good luck with them, too. :gj:

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Last year I did this and my female refused the meal I offered a couple weeks into incubation. Because I had read so many threads that said they wouldn't eat anything during incubation, I assumed that it was to be expected and didn't offer food again until her eggs hatched.

I offered a rat pup to both of my females last week because I had extras and figured I'd just see if they had any interest. One ignored hers but the other wolfed it down without any hesitation. I wish I had thought to offer food earlier on but I was still under the notion that they would just refuse whatever was offered. Another poster here, anatess, is maternally incubating and their female has apparently been eating every 10 days. I suppose it's all according to the female in question. From now on I will offer a small food item at least once every two weeks to my brooding females.

I don't think substrate really matters that much. I just like the look of cypress mulch and it doesn't mold when it gets wet like some other beddings. Both of my females have pushed all of the cypress aside and are laying on the plastic directly over the heat tape. Because they are in tubs, the humidity doesn't drop very low. The lowest reading I've ever gotten in one of my tubs was 60%.

I have only removed a female from her eggs once during this whole process and that was because one of her eggs had rolled out of her coils and I needed to place it back closer to its 'siblings' to make sure it would just tumble out again. With all of the eggs situated together, I put the female back in the tub and she gathered them all back up in her coils with no further incidents. I wouldn't remove a female from her clutch unless I felt it was really necessary. Too much stress could cause them to abandon the clutch.

I know a lot of keepers/breeders routinely weigh their females, but I don't. I'll probably weigh the babies when they hatch and I would also weigh any problem feeders I have to note any weight loss over a period of time, but I've never routinely weighed my snakes.



Thanks for the well wishes, guys! I hope to have babies and baby pics soon!

hi, any updates...? :)

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Originally Posted by qinw

hi, any updates...? :)

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None yet.. They're on Days 55 and 52 now.

Not much to report.. Dewshine's eggs are smoother now than before. The "snowflaking" isn't as obvious now. Before, they had odd shaped bumps all over the eggs and now they're smooth. Not sure why, but it's neat nonetheless.

Dewshine's behavior has changed dramatically over the past couple of days, too. She had been very laid back with me checking in on her and the eggs, but now she's suddenly hissy and more aggressive. I'm hoping that this is an indicator that she's feeling changes within the eggs and it's nearly time.

I had hoped that I would have babies this weekend, but it looks like that's not going to happen. This waiting is killing me!

Yesterday the same egg that had rolled out of Dewshine's clutch twice before (several weeks ago) was sitting outside of her coils again and, I decided to snip that egg. I regretted doing so immediately afterwards because I had told myself all along that I would wait.. yesterday was lousy and I guess I just wanted to assure myself that it was okay and candling wasn't enough. I still don't get my reasoning. Anyway, I placed the slit egg back in the pile with its mother and she coiled around the group. Today makes Day 59 for Dewshine and Day 56 for Ailynn. I checked on them after I got up this morning and found this:





http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8747/cimg5801.jpg
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/6193/cimg5802v.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4672/cimg5803.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9513/cimg5804.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5205/cimg5805.jpg
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/9488/cimg5806.jpg
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/282/cimg5807d.jpg
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/7905/cimg5808t.jpg


The egg I snipped yesterday was blowing bubbles through the slit last time I checked, but hasn't come out yet. I didn't get a good pic of that egg because the mom is partially covering it. She's going into a shed cycle, which might explain some of her recent moodiness, and I didn't want to disturb her any more than I needed to to get a few pics of what was going on in there. So far, all I've seen look like normal babies.

I'll check on the moms again later today to see if I have any new pips or any babies out of the eggs.

Congrats so far! I can't wait to see how it turns out! I'm pretty convinced on trying this maternal incubation. :gj:

Man. A shed cycle and clutch of eggs. I bet she is cranky! Good luck with them, they are adorable!

Cranky is an understatement. lol