Morals and ethics of snake as feeders (what do you do with your normal spin-off)

#NormalAreBeautiful

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Originally Posted by Nz2500

#NormalAreBeautiful

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Not only that, they've already passed the test with natural selection...hate to say it, but there's a reason you rarely see morphs in the wild, much less snakes with
head wobbles...

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Wha?? CO2 sure will kill them if you leave them in there long enough just like any other animal that breathes air. How do you think CO2 chambers are made for rats. You use a paintball gun cartridge in a tub with a screw type valve. And i dont know if i agree that even gas chambers are that humane either. I mean they darn well know they cant breath and i would imagine they are stressing. It's like if you were put in a CO2 chamber lol. I mean rats arent humans but anything will know if it is losing the ability to breath.

Oh or some make a MacGuyver chamber with dry ice in a small container with holes inside a larger tub with the rats in it.

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It will kill them but... snakes have a very low oxygen requirement so they will survive for a very long time also freezing them extremely inhumane they can feel the ice crystallize on their tissue. beheading also not an option their brain still functions for a while and they can feel the pain. the best way to do it is to go to the vet. the reasons why you want to kill normals is sooo stupid i can understand if they are sick or injured but not a fancy morph? you should not be in the buisness for money you should be in it for passion!

101Animallover101 i 100% agree with you.
If you are a wannabe breeder. Then you should ALWAYS strive to do it for the Passion of it and not for financial gain!

(Because Dude, if your in it for the money alone then you are in the wrong business. Not everyone can be Brian Barcyzk)

And besides, I thought the Puppy Mill mentality of killing/mistreating healthy snakes because they cant gain you a net profit is the main reason we are supposed to like small breeders and hate wholesale stores like Petsmart and Petco.

I've worked at animal shelters. They get the cheapest food available.
The feral kittens usually come in diseased, and then it spreads to the other kittens in the cat room.
You don't want to feed those unfortunate critters to your retic!

I couldn’t kill a perfect baby snake, but if it’s not wasted and used for food I can’t say I’d be mad at all. But killing any animal for pure sports isn’t cool with me.

I see some very unfair presumptions in here.

I'm a HUGE animal lover. But I've also seen the effects of when animal lovers pass laws they "think" should benefit the animals, only for it to backfire terribly, and the ones suffering are the animals.

So now I always try to think everything through very thoroughly. From all angles.

Yes, puppy mills are the bottom of all evilness when it comes to animal breeding. However, they survive. Why ? Because they save on housing, vet care, food, time and energy. Basically, they spend as little as they can get away with (and the animal pays) while churning out great numbers of animals.

Yet oftentimes I see great breeders thrown in with the likes of the puppy mills (whether puppies, reptiles, etc). Why? Because they make money. Because they produce a good number of animals. They do make financial gain. But guess what. If they didn't, you most likely wouldn't have your animals. Or if you did, you would have them from the dreaded "mills".

If we only had the "for passion alone" breeders (which I actually am, and I feel lucky to be able to do so) there wouldn't be enough quality, healthy and beautiful animals to go around. That is just basic math. If you want a animal from a good breeder, that takes care of their animals, makes health a priority, does it RIGHT, you are not the only one. Most people would prefer that, at least the ones that know the difference and didn't already make a pity purchase at the big box stores.

But if those good breeders only bred for passion and fun, most couldn't afford to do that in any kind of larger number. They simply couldn't afford to do it. Certainly couldn't afford to do it RIGHT.

I see no problem with the GOOD larger scale breeders making a profit. It allows them to keep doing what they are doing and that is great. I'm pretty sure most breeders don't go around killing Normals because they think those animals are worthless ugly ole things.
However, they are selling for far less then morphs. That is just the way it is. Would you or anyone pay more for a normal then a morph? Even if it is gorgeous? Probably not.

So if there are people that breed or keep snake-eating species and want to buy the lowest priced snakes as feeders, what are they supposed to buy ? There are only so many "kinked or sickly" snakes to go around. As a matter of fact, if I had reptiles that needed to feed on snakes, you bet I wouldn't get sickly or recently passed away snakes to feed them with. Unless that was one of MY hatchlings that I know did not carry some disease. I would probably also not spend $50 or more per feeder snake, when there are $10 ones to be had. And guess what, those usually won't be the morphs.

So it has very little to do with hating on Normals or going around killing snakes because they are Normals. Its just economics. It is just feeding snakes what they need to eat. Would you withhold food from your snake just because someone else had some moral objection to you feeding a live rat weanling or whatever your snake requires to eat?

All that said, I have not killed any snakes. I have not fed off any snakes. I have not sold any snakes to be fed off. (or given away). I couldn't do it. But I won't hate on the people that do sell them to that fate. Look at how many snakes (Normals or morphs) are sold as pets and yet end up FAR WORSE then a quick death from being fed off. Even if someone just sells 20 hatchlings per year and tries to pick good homes, can you guarantee those animals will truly have good homes for the entirety of their lives ?

So what to do? Just not breed? Not breed in numbers? Not breed for profit?
Yup, for someone that has issues with worrying where there babies might end up, it would be best not to produce any. Nothing wrong with that at all.

But again, then we wouldn't have the number of good quality and healthy Normals and morphs that we have nowadays. We'd still be struggling with sickly and starving Imports or questionable animals from the "mills".

Long story short, if larger breeder have Normals for sale, obviously at a cheaper price then morphs, and they sell to someone that needs them for their King Cobra, Eastern Indigo or whatever, I won't judge them.
I see far worse in our hobby all the time, and not just when it comes to breeding and selling.

Whoops, posted on the wrong thread. Please ignore.

Wow, how did that happen twice? My computer is being weird tonight.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Kingsnake breeders. Dont know what they do.
I had a couple hatchlings that were kinked bad, my Mexican Blacks made quick work in them. Its hard for me to watch but I have seen people just throw their normal in the freezer then trash them. I cant see wasting a life......

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Putting a snake in the freezer is a slow torturous death for them. They are cold blooded and don't go into an elegant unconscious sleep before dying like we would. Their cells die slowly and painfully. My herp vet told us this. Please don't ever do this.