Kiss your hobby goodbye!!!! USFW Proposed ban!!!!

more people are attacked by dogs than snakes this is ridiculous if they try to pass this im gonna be standing on the white house lawn flipping them off til they change it lmao :rage:+:(+:mad:+:rolleye2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Oh, i see now. I think they should regulate the sale of bigger snakes that have more of a chance of being let go because of size and houseing issues, but there is no reason for smaller ones.

I also see stray dogs all over the place, and i do not see them trying to ban dogs?

---

I think they should do that, but only in states where If a python or boa is let loose it can live in the wild. Im in Wisconsin so if one gets out or someone lets it loose. In the summer It might live, But once winter hits they are dead. So regulate sales of these snakes. In the states where they could live year round. Leave the rest of the states alone. Just my thoughts.

It might have to come down to the breeders micro chipping each and every snake they sell and documenting who its sold to in order to track that person down if the animal is found outside or let loose in the wild. I know this isnt a foolproof way of keeping people from dumping their animals but its something to think about. Animal cops was on last night and they caught several tegus and a fairly big water monitor in a fairly small residential area in florida and were blaming it on an importer that lived just a few blocks away. These people are going to ruin the right to keeping reptiles for everyone with there stupidity. Imagine how many people saw that show that are scared of reptiles, what do you think they are going to say when they hear about the proposed ban, they'll be all for it.Responsible ownership and doing research on an animal before you buy it is the key.

mike bell

i am not sure if this is a repost or not, (i didn't want to look through all 22 pages lol) but i know of 2 on line petitions that you can sign as well for anyone interested.


http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/boasandpythonsban/


http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspubli...000064803a565f

(the one asks for a donation after u submit it, but you do not need to donate, your signature will already be recorded)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beardedragon

This is stupid, yet another sad attempt of people who do not understand snakes trying to ban them:mad: Like my ball python is ever going to eat me:rolleyes:

---

That's right a bunch of morons from florida are trying to make everybod's life miserable. Like my boa will survive the winter here in Mass if it escapes and will completely destroy the entire ecosystem of the US, or your BP, birm or whatever snake you've got. Seriously give me a break ! We must stand up and fight for our freedom and put an end to this b***s**t . :salute:

Does anyone know whats going on with this? Did it get passed or not? I've not heard anything more on or about it, I guess thats a good thing perhaps?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dracothedragon

i am not sure if this is a repost or not, (i didn't want to look through all 22 pages lol) but i know of 2 on line petitions that you can sign as well for anyone interested.

---

Ditto on the looking through all 22 pages. If you are a breeder or pet store, please fill out these surveys. It will help PIJAC and USFWS understand what is at stake economically, which can be very convincing. :D Thanks!

First one is for Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council (PIJAC):
https://www.pijac.org/i4a/forms/form.cfm?id=23

Second one is for (United States Fish & Wildlife Service) USFWS:
http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspubli...000064803a565f

Submitted my letter. What a shame for them to even propose such a ridiculous idea.

when will everything be said and done? April 30th?

I doubt this ban will be passed...just because the herp hobby has expanded so much. Too many people have businesses based around reptile breeding and care. And it'll also be a difficult law to enforce.
But in my opinion I think there should be more regulation on the animals people are allowed to buy at any ol pet store or expo. I mean, some reptiles just shouldn't be kept by just anyone. Too many herps fall into the wrong hands and are neglected or set loose into the wild which creates competition with native species, which isn't fair to the animals. Not everyone is responsibly herp keepers.

Ok let me make my feelings on this very clear so that everyone understands the situation in africa where specifically ball pythons come from.

They are being killed by the thousand every day for skin trade, hunted and taken from their habitats and are starting a down ward spiral to being extinct in the wild.

I love my ball python to death, but i made sure that i was buying one that was captive bred. there are hundreds of thousands of people with ball pythons in the world, they dont need to be taken from the wild anymore. I agree banning all forms of the trade is not the right solution, I think they should move from banning trading, to banning trading between countries. not between states in america. just stop the wild caught pet trade, there are more than enough to go around from breeders. but there aren't all that many left in the wild.

It really bugs me when people decide the only solution to any problem is to get rid of the whole activity completely. there are many ways to stop will animals from dying or being taken from their environment.

I know thats not all this is about, i.e all the animals that end up being let loose and that excape, I think instead of banning people from buying pythons, especially large ones, is to just correctly educate buyers, or impose a licence with a written test on how to care for large animals, kind of like a learners licence for snakes.

either way, I don't live in the states. but i believe that trying to prevent people from a hobby they enjoy is wrong on many levels. all I can say is good luck to you.

:( This does not look hopeful, really.
On the bright side, we can still keep the snakes we have, right? They won't take our snakes away, will they?

I know many people whose pitbulls were ripped out of their childrens' arms and euthanized for "safety" and all that really accomplished was to scar families forever. They had to watch ol' Spotty waddle away with his tail wagging knowing that he would never come back.. Because some government person says he's dangerous.

I have never been bitten by a snake, and that says alot because I used to crawl around in the ditches and catch them when I was tiny. Now, I could understand if they had some sort of size limitation, but this is just stupid.

I will agree that anacondas and retics can be dangerous when they become big enough to swallow someone, but if you're crazy enough to own one, chances are you're willing to take the risk, and you know what you're doing, you know?

Also, I bet that NOT ONE of the people supporting this ban have ever had a pet snake. They've probably never even held one. That says alot in itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spiritwather

Ok let me make my feelings on this very clear so that everyone understands the situation in africa where specifically ball pythons come from.

They are being killed by the thousand every day for skin trade, hunted and taken from their habitats and are starting a down ward spiral to being extinct in the wild.

I love my ball python to death, but i made sure that i was buying one that was captive bred. there are hundreds of thousands of people with ball pythons in the world, they dont need to be taken from the wild anymore. I agree banning all forms of the trade is not the right solution, I think they should move from banning trading, to banning trading between countries. not between states in America. just stop the wild caught pet trade, there are more than enough to go around from breeders. but there aren't all that many left in the wild.

It really bugs me when people decide the only solution to any problem is to get rid of the whole activity completely. there are many ways to stop will animals from dying or being taken from their environment.

I know that's not all this is about, i.e all the animals that end up being let loose and that escape, I think instead of banning people from buying pythons, especially large ones, is to just correctly educate buyers, or impose a licence with a written test on how to care for large animals, kind of like a learners licence for snakes.

either way, I don't live in the states. but i believe that trying to prevent people from a hobby they enjoy is wrong on many levels. all I can say is good luck to you.

---

Although I think something needs to be done to ensure the wild bp population is protected, I am not for the complete stopping of trade or importation for the simple fact that that is how we get new morphs. Something interesting comes in from Africa, you breed to prove out the genetics. I do think they should limit the number of snakes imported so it's more "cream of the crop" that comes in and then pet stores will have to go to the breeders for their snakes instead of just buying them from some random person who imports.

Either way, imo this is a prime example of the federal government sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong. These bans should be by county, hell even state before federal. The fact is most snakes aren't going to live much further north then mid to upper Florida, not through the winter anyway. So let the counties or states these reptiles affect deal with it and the federal government can go do something more useful, like say fix the issues in Iraq, do something about the fact that some peoples gas per month is more than their car payment, or reform the prison system so we're not letting rapist and pedophiles walk the streets because our prisons are filled with people who have non-violent drug offenses.

Sorry /rant off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Holbeird

Although I think something needs to be done to ensure the wild bp population is protected, I am not for the complete stopping of trade or importation for the simple fact that that is how we get new morphs. Something interesting comes in from Africa, you breed to prove out the genetics. I do think they should limit the number of snakes imported so it's more "cream of the crop" that comes in and then pet stores will have to go to the breeders for their snakes instead of just buying them from some random person who imports.

Either way, imo this is a prime example of the federal government sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong. These bans should be by county, hell even state before federal. The fact is most snakes aren't going to live much further north then mid to upper Florida, not through the winter anyway. So let the counties or states these reptiles affect deal with it and the federal government can go do something more useful, like say fix the issues in Iraq, do something about the fact that some peoples gas per month is more than their car payment, or reform the prison system so we're not letting rapist and pedophiles walk the streets because our prisons are filled with people who have non-violent drug offenses.

Sorry /rant off.

---

I am now proclaiming you the smartest person I've ever met through a screen!:bow:

Same thing happening up here in BC. Canada . WE are now facing a total ban on all exotics not just reptiles .

this sucks.
but... even if the law did go into effect...

they couldnt just make everyone... give up there snakes...
i mean... what would they do? kill hundreds of thousands of snakes...?

Quote:

---

they couldnt just make everyone... Give up there snakes...
i mean... What would they do? Kill hundreds of thousands of snakes...?

---

YES.... if we let them have it their way. I heard thats what they did in australia(forced euthanasia) and they put up reward posters for turning in anyone still keeping exotic speices. Im not sure how much of this is true but it's what I heard

Is there actually any update on this shennanigans or is it pretty much done with?

They've been trying stuff like this forever and this was all the rage for a hot minute but I haven't heard anything on it in a good 2 months now. Anything new at all?

This is not a law, or even a regulation yet. As the result of a petition from the South Florida Water Management District requesting that Burmese pythons be added to the list of "injurious wildlife" listed in a federal regulation, the Dept. of the Interior, Fish and Wildlife Services was seeking public comments on whether they should add any or all constrictor snakes to that list. http://www.fws.gov/policy/library/E8-1770.html

This request came about because of concerns that Burmese pythons are naturalizing in the Florida Everglades and could cause a big shift in the ecosystem, which is not an unreasonable concern, right?

Listing an animal in the reg. would then allow the Sec. of the Interior to prohibit importation and interstate transportation of these species.

The agency accepted comments til April 30, 2008. They were primarily looking for biological and economic data. Public comments are available for review online at http://www.regulations.gov (search for python, find a comment on Doc. No. FWS-R9-FHC-2008-0015, and click on the link to that document). There are 62 pages of links, so there was a lot of commentary.

Now that public commentary is closed, the department will study the issue further before possibly proposing adding any animals to the list. If they do propose that, there will be another public comment period before anything is enacted. I can't believe that they would absolutely shut down any trade in constrictors, but then again, the US government has surprised me before....

Here is what I have to say on this. Not to be an a** or anything but I read everything that had to do with this "ban" and like Froglily, I see that it is not a ban but more of a request for info. The night I found out about this, I had just bought a very nice Nerd Lemon Pastel I almost asked for my money back before I read everything on ban. Frankly, I'm going to act as if everything is normal and go on with my plans for breeding until I know for a fact that this ban is going into effect. If it happens, they will have to take my snakes from my cold dead fingers. I worked to hard to get a female well over breeding weight and a nice pastel. If I have to, I will never move out of state just to keep them.

As for invasives, here in AZ I only see a few snakes becoming a real problem. (if that) I know that some cave boas feed strictly on bats and here in AZ we have 1 or more bats that are endangered. I don’t know of any one that has this kind of boa but that could be a problem. Sand boas could be a problem due to them competing with the rubber boas and Rosies, along with our native boas, the worm snakes and ground snakes we have here in the US could loose access to food from the sand boas. (This will all be over a long period of time mind you but will still be a problem.)

I don’t know much about boas and other pythons but I don’t see Ball Pythons being a real problem besides getting rid of an ever growing problem with rodents. But that is just my opinion.

That is just my :2cent: please feel free to pick it apart and correct me if I have made any mistakes.

y'all will have to forive me for sayin this but a ban on snake like the burmese pythons would be good not bad most burmese owners outside of longtime owners buy them thinking they won't get very big and end up selling or releasing them exacerbating the problem the rest of the snakes shouldn't be banned just the larger ones like retics and burms and only to the point where you'd need a permit to own them

Quote:

---

y'all will have to forive me for sayin this but a ban on snake like the burmese pythons would be good not bad most burmese owners outside of longtime owners buy them thinking they won't get very big and end up selling or releasing them exacerbating the problem the rest of the snakes shouldn't be banned just the larger ones like retics and burms and only to the point where you'd need a permit to own them
05-29-2008 02:54 PM

---

I would have no problem with somthing like that as long as it is confined to florida

I don't have a problem w/bans on burmes or retics in the appropriate states like florida louisiana so forth but in the north if you release that type of snake it would'nt make through the winter.

I don't believe in bans on snakes of any kind. I just think you need to have a permit to get one. Go through a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo, sign some papers showing you know of their potential size and care and pay a small fee. Also, the snakes should be microchipped so that if someone does let one go, and it is found, it can be traced back to that person and they can deal with the law.

so has anyone heard anything about it being either rejected or passed, or when it will be presented?

what is going on have they passed it or not

no idea if it passed but i just bought a ball in a pet shop about a week ago.

It's not a matter of it 'passing' yet.. it was only an inquiry, it's no where near the point of being signed into law. This was just a preliminary info-gathering stage.

It looks like they will limit possession to a very few. Even those of us who are reptile/herp rescuers are effected. My wife and I try to educate everyone who is interested in becoming an owner, but there are always those who don't listen and think they know it all and are the ones who end up releasing exotics into our domestic habitation. We will keep doing our part.
I went to the link to write but found it closed, so I will write to US Fish Wildlife through snail mail. Hopefully all of us will educate them.

Peace and Blessings to All.:gj:

In Oklahoma when rooster fighting was outlawed it became a felony to even own the fighting breed. A great deal of fighters and breeders in my area either killed ever single rooster, hen, chick, and egg or let all the birds loss into the wild. The birds hung around the owners houses and when predors like coyotes and racoon came up the owner kill them because they endangered the other livestock. If the ban passes some people might just let their reptiles loss and that will be a big problem for fish and game officers. The ban might not pass because some species are like the crested gecko and are totally depended on the pet trade for numbers, since their are so few in the wild. If the ban does not let people keep their animals their will be more then just alligators that get eaten by big burmese or retic pythons!

Sometimes the way media works really gets me soooooo, uhhhhh. The wife and i were watching a special on pythons last ngiht, and residents down near the everglades were complaining about constrictors coming into their neighborhoods. The so called "specialists" kept going on and on about how deadly and dangerous pythons are, and how they need to take some kind of action quickly before people start dissappearing, etc etc etc. All I know is they need to differentiate between the wilder ones and the captive bred because I feel they are casuing unnessecary fear. They need to be educating and teaching respect, not fear. I really began to question the Discovery channel last night.:salute:

I'm just thinking how horrible it will be if it becomes a bill, then a law, then go into effect and all our future snake carreers will be ruined. Nobody will keep these animals if there are so many regulations leading to more fear and misunderstanding. Most of the public will fear snakes :(

well alot of the public already does fear snakes, but what i dont get is why the news is saying that people are going to start disappearing. they actually did a show on animal planet or discovery channel ( cant remember which one) where it SHOWED that even a 25 foot anaconda couldnt eat a human, because they eat head first, their jaws cannot stretch wide enough to get past the shoulders. unless someone has actually been eaten recently, i dont think it can happen. but it would suck if they did do that ban. i think that AT MOST in the lower states where snakes could actually survive in the wild during the coldest times of the year, you should have to get a permit, take a small written test about the snake you are planning to buy. i know that even that wont prevent ppl from getting them without licenses though, cuz im sure someone will want to get rid of their snake cuz they're moving or something and just give it away, but a ban on all pythons is just outrageous. sorry for the book haha :oops:

Has there been any updates about this? I know that people could only send in the veiws and comments about this until April 30th, and that has been passed for awhile.. So does anyone know?

someone start a petition on petitiononline.com we must stop the feds

Hey all! This sucks!!! I agree it DOES have to do w/ ALL the idiots down in the everglades that want something just because they want something that is "EXOTIC" and don't want to read up on what it takes to care for and how extinsive they all to maintain and care for. Is there any type on petition we can sign to keep this from happening?????? Hit me up thank you! Ray:snake:

They Can"t Do This I Just Started My Collection!

I try to do my part on a local level. And I have tried in the past to get members here to take action. It seems that no one has any interest in lobbying for our hobby beyond their own neighborhood. I suppose people feel like their actions will not make a difference. I don't know about that, but I'm quite sure our lack of action will make a difference!

Damnit curse my britishness.....

It wont let me go to the comment place can someone please give my the mailing address. I am getting my entire college to support us! if anything cant they just make people get a license? WTF this is stupid. I am NEVER going to give up the fight for my baby KI!

Anyone run across this article yet? I haven't read the whole thing in detail yet (the technobabble lost me early on) but it looks to be a very interesting read, and helpful to our cause.

To sum it up, it's an article contradicting the study released by the USGS a while back.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0002931

Okay people, we REALLY need to get a petition going or send letters to people that matter! These shallow people who know nothing of the creatures we all love, and therefor fear them, want to pass legislation just to look like they're doing something. I'm not sure what half of this legal babble means but I do get the gist of it. We cannot allow this to happen. Now, I haven't read the entire thing through but I intend to over the next few days. I'm new to the herpetoculture hobby, but I do it because I love these critters. I'm outraged to think that people might actually allow this to happen. It's gonna take an effort on the part of all of us so, what can we do? Any ideas?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beardedragon

This is stupid, yet another sad attempt of people who do not understand snakes trying to ban them:mad: Like my ball python is ever going to eat me:rolleyes:

---

its not about snakes eating people nor is it about fear . its about
The Government being pissed off cause they dont see the money derived from selling of these animals ..
its the Government wanting to dip their hands in for a profit and since most people sell their stuff privately means no taxes and no taxes makes big brother mad cause their not getting rich off the little guys ..
so what do they do when they cant dip their hands in ? they jump in and try to control it and ban it , so if anyones caught they will get fined out the ass and the government gets paid ...

wow, I'm happy to be here in NL :snake:
I hope for you all you can stop this al happen !!

they're several petition forums on other sites. i signed one just last night =)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xanaxez

they're several petition forums on other sites. i signed one just last night =)

---

Can you link some of these sites? I would be interested in signing these and I am sure there are lots of people on here who would.

from the USGS
Paragraph number 2 read a little further next time.

Methodology/Principal Findings

Here we show that a predicted continental expansion is unlikely based on the ecology of the organism and the climate of the U.S. Our ecological niche models, which include variables representing climatic extremes as well as averages, indicate that the only suitable habitat in the U.S. for Burmese pythons presently occurs in southern Florida and in extreme southern Texas. Models based on the current distribution of the snake predict suitable habitat in essentially the only region in which the snakes are found in the U.S. Future climate models based on global warming forecasts actually indicate a significant contraction in suitable habitat for Burmese pythons in the U.S. as well as in their native range.

They are saying that it will not be spreading and because of the climate changes the are in which they can have a habitat is actually shrinking in the us. please read this and every one please post a comment about it.

Paragraph #3

Conclusions/Significance

The Burmese python is strongly limited to the small area of suitable environmental conditions in the United States it currently inhabits due to the ecological niche preferences of the snake. The ability of the Burmese python to expand further into the U.S. is severely limited by ecological constraints. Global warming is predicted to significantly reduce the area of suitable habitat worldwide, underscoring the potential negative effects of climate change for many species.

They will not be banning based off what this study says.

Yay!!! Great news, thanks for the update!! :banana:

If indeed they are not banning then that is brilliant news, hope it all works out over there, I am rooting for you.


Even over here in the UK it's been well documented with documentaries and reports of the Everglades problem with Burmese Pythons affecting the native species of other animals and this is a sad fact directly attributed to irresponsible owners unfortunatley.

Its ammunition like that, that will ultimately put most pressure and I just hope we never have a serious incident with a large python let loose involving any humans as that would be catastrophic.

Here in Scotland reptiles escaping or being let loose is not something that would ever cause a problem as we are a land of wind rain snow ice and arctic conditions ......dam think I just depressed myself :P