ECLARK - mites

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

How can you guarantee elimination of mites with one treatment? Doesn't it sometimes take weeks for eggs to hatch? Until they hatch how will you know the extent of the contamination?

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If you use Equate you can't guarantee anything. It may kill the mites but won't do a thing about the eggs and possibly won't be around when those eggs hatch :)

You are correct though!

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Originally Posted by jglass38

If you use Equate you can't guarantee anything. It may kill the mites but won't do a thing about the eggs and possibly won't be around when those eggs hatch :)

You are correct though!

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I know P.A.M. kills the eggs, but how can you know you're getting every single one? If the snakes came in that way, then it could be a bigger problem. If they came into the room all the way through the house. Just too many variables.

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

I know P.A.M. kills the eggs, but how can you know you're getting every single one? If the snakes came in that way, then it could be a bigger problem. If they came into the room all the way through the house. Just too many variables.

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Agreed. There is no way in such a short time to say they are eradicated.

You would also think that a seller would cease and desist any current selling, and not put anymore animals up for sale until they can be 100% sure that the preoblem has been eradicated...apparently not :(

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Originally Posted by Uncle Festae

You would also think that a seller would cease and desist any current selling, and not put anymore animals up for sale until they can be 100% sure that the preoblem has been eradicated...apparently not :(

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you would think so wouldn't you?

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Originally Posted by Uncle Festae

You would also think that a seller would cease and desist any current selling, and not put anymore animals up for sale until they can be 100% sure that the preoblem has been eradicated...apparently not :(

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You would think that since single eggs are not really visible and can get onto a snake that is crawling around a bin, that putting a hold on sales for the period of a complete mite life cycle would be enforced.

Thinking along the lines of "I have eradicated every single mite with one treatment and the problem is resolved, and will not happen again" is hopeful thinking at best. The worse case scenario should be considered and protected against. That is why we quarantine in the first place. To state that without doubt, the mites are all gone, only shows that you are still letting your guard down.


Rick

I just hate, despise, and loathe these types of threads. It is like Mark my fiancee said when reading over my shoulder; like sharks grabbing onto bait. Personally, if I bought a snake and it had mites, I would be irate. I would not make a thread on a forum until I contacted the seller and only then if he/she refused to remedy the situation. I really would have let the situation play out and then made a less inflamatory thread about the whole thing as long as the seller agreed to compensate me.
That said, Ed, if this was something you didn't know about (and I believe this is true) it is almost like I want to say, I have more respect for you for owning-up to it rather than a knee-jerk denial. If I were in your position, I would stop selling anything until the mites were definately gone and maybe even wait a few months after that. When i make a mistake once, it can be learned from; but to allow it to happen again.. would just snowball things downhill for anyone's reputation.
Ed; I knew/know you were a good person and I was completely happy with the snake you sold me. I had no problems with the sale; snake was packaged and arrived healthy and vivacious.
It "just" seems a little low to me that people who have trouble with people buying and reselling snakes, have to jump on Ed like he just murdered an entire village of nuns or something. The snake sold had mites. He agreed to send some complimentary mite relief.
So I am not an Ed hater. Hate me or whatever; it is an imperfect world and it would be nicey-wicey to say "oh, no sellers should ever have a mite in their collection and if they do and it accidentally gets to a customer they should be divided and quartered, medieval-torture fashion." But how many of us have adopted/bought cats/dogs that had ticks, fleas and worms? Did you blackball the SPCA? I didn't; I got some dewormer and Advantage.
This all being said, Shelby I sincerely hope that the mites do not spread around in your collection.. I hate the &^%$ing things.. I hate the fact that this whole thing has happened.

Chris, let me explain what I did to Eliminate the mites in 1 of my baby racks.


First thing that I did was remove the ball pythons and soak them individually to kill the mites I seen on 2 of them, while they were soaking I sprayed the rack down with provent-a-mite. removed the rack and took it into the basement where it will be treated again in 30 days. that rack will not be used again in a long time. I had just bought new racks and set 1 of those up and sprayed it down real good with provent-a-mite. all new tubs in the rack that also were sprayed with provent-a-mite. everything in the area gets sprayed real good. all my racks are not stacked on one another or touching side-side and each rack is set up by itself on a stand. thats so if there is a problem like this it does not spread. the floors are mopped about every 2 weeks with a strong Nix solution that will kill any mite that would have made it to the floor. The babies that are being treated will not be sold for a long time untill Im satisfied they are clean. I have snakes for sale that are clean and not effected. I will retreat everything in 30 days as needed, this was caught quickly and treated swiftly. This should have never happened, I did and I did what was necessary to eliminate the problem. :)

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Originally Posted by Uncle Festae

You would also think that a seller would cease and desist any current selling, and not put anymore animals up for sale until they can be 100% sure that the preoblem has been eradicated...apparently not :(

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I just hate, despise, and loathe these types of threads. It is like Mark my fiancee said when reading over my shoulder; like sharks grabbing onto bait. Personally, if I bought a snake and it had mites, I would be irate. I would not make a thread on a forum until I contacted the seller and only then if he/she refused to remedy the situation. I really would have let the situation play out and then made a less inflamatory thread about the whole thing as long as the seller agreed to compensate me.
That said, Ed, if this was something you didn't know about (and I believe this is true) it is almost like I want to say, I have more respect for you for owning-up to it rather than a knee-jerk denial. If I were in your position, I would stop selling anything until the mites were definately gone and maybe even wait a few months after that. When i make a mistake once, it can be learned from; but to allow it to happen again.. would just snowball things downhill for anyone's reputation.
Ed; I knew/know you were a good person and I was completely happy with the snake you sold me. I had no problems with the sale; snake was packaged and arrived healthy and vivacious.
It "just" seems a little low to me that people who have trouble with people buying and reselling snakes, have to jump on Ed like he just murdered an entire village of nuns or something. The snake sold had mites. He agreed to send some complimentary mite relief.
So I am not an Ed hater. Hate me or whatever; it is an imperfect world and it would be nicey-wicey to say "oh, no sellers should ever have a mite in their collection and if they do and it accidentally gets to a customer they should be divided and quartered, medieval-torture fashion." But how many of us have adopted/bought cats/dogs that had ticks, fleas and worms? Did you blackball the SPCA? I didn't; I got some dewormer and Advantage.
This all being said, Shelby I sincerely hope that the mites do not spread around in your collection.. I hate the &^%$ing things.. I hate the fact that this whole thing has happened.

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Wow. Could you be more short sighted? Unbelievable...

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I just hate, despise, and loathe these types of threads. It is like Mark my fiancee said when reading over my shoulder; like sharks grabbing onto bait. Personally, if I bought a snake and it had mites, I would be irate. I would not make a thread on a forum until I contacted the seller and only then if he/she refused to remedy the situation. I really would have let the situation play out and then made a less inflamatory thread about the whole thing as long as the seller agreed to compensate me.
That said, Ed, if this was something you didn't know about (and I believe this is true) it is almost like I want to say, I have more respect for you for owning-up to it rather than a knee-jerk denial. If I were in your position, I would stop selling anything until the mites were definately gone and maybe even wait a few months after that. When i make a mistake once, it can be learned from; but to allow it to happen again.. would just snowball things downhill for anyone's reputation.
Ed; I knew/know you were a good person and I was completely happy with the snake you sold me. I had no problems with the sale; snake was packaged and arrived healthy and vivacious.
It "just" seems a little low to me that people who have trouble with people buying and reselling snakes, have to jump on Ed like he just murdered an entire village of nuns or something. The snake sold had mites. He agreed to send some complimentary mite relief.
So I am not an Ed hater. Hate me or whatever; it is an imperfect world and it would be nicey-wicey to say "oh, no sellers should ever have a mite in their collection and if they do and it accidentally gets to a customer they should be divided and quartered, medieval-torture fashion." But how many of us have adopted/bought cats/dogs that had ticks, fleas and worms? Did you blackball the SPCA? I didn't; I got some dewormer and Advantage.
This all being said, Shelby I sincerely hope that the mites do not spread around in your collection.. I hate the &^%$ing things.. I hate the fact that this whole thing has happened.

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With proper quarantine none of this would have happened. He wanted to make a quick buck and look what happened? Greed consumes all. Sorry, but to know you're gonna sell a reptile to someone with 39 reptiles? Imagine what could happen? April still isn't out of the clear. Like I said in aprevious post. If you're gonna sell reptiles, you better have the utmost STRICT quarantine.

You are completely wrong about Greed and wanting to make a quick buck, the balls that came in with the mites was something I bought for myself to keep and were not going to be sold. I have a quarantine area, but totally blew it on this one. :(

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Originally Posted by Vomitore

With proper quarantine none of this would have happened. He wanted to make a quick buck and look what happened? Greed consumes all. Sorry, but to know you're gonna sell a reptile to someone with 39 reptiles? Imagine what could happen? April still isn't out of the clear. Like I said in aprevious post. If you're gonna sell reptiles, you better have the utmost STRICT quarantine.

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Whoah. This is shocking news from such a well known and respected breeder like Ed. Quarantine should be EVERY breeder's policy. Whether you have three snakes or three thousand snakes, it only takes ONE mite to produce thousands-quickly. It only takes one mite to infect several other snakes with disease. If a breeder valued his/collection not just for business sake, but the established animals' sake as well, he would always quarantine-NOT quarantining every new animal is taking a risk. It's like neglecting to replace wearing tires-it may not happen the first 100,1,000,or 100,00 miles.....but sooner or later them tires is gonna blow!....all because of neglect on the owner's part. If precautionary measures are always taken, these things wouldn't happen. People value their lives as well as others right? That's why we get new tires. I have only had one snake with mites- a new animal from a show that was found to have two mites on his chin after thorough inspection on the way home. I have however NEVER had mites on any of my established collection. A fact I can attribute to my strict quarantine process-any new animal goes into the quarantine cage, for exactly 90 days,and still gets a POM treatment on the liner regardless if mites are found or not.....you can never be too careful. IMO, even just skipping quarantine ONCE is being careless. just my $.02.

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

I have a quarantine area, but totally blew it on this one. :(

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I think this thread should come to a close, Ed has clearly admitted this, and everyone else has expressed their opinions and if they haven't the whole topic has been beaten to death. The more the two sides of the topic post their opinions, the more everyone is going to argue and be aggressive towards each other. It is okay to state your opinion but more than a few of these posts have been aggressive and almost try to belittle the previous poster, which no one in my book has the right to make someone else feel like dirt or any less than someone else no one's place. Ed has made an effort to make things right and i am sure he will help out whatever way the two of them feel fit if the problem escalates, doesn't mean its right to have happened in the beginning but an effort has been made.

I think everyone needs to relax and realize this is a community and it doesn't matter who is the poster is they need respect. Opinions should be respected. This is my 2 cents.

~mike

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Originally Posted by 4theSNAKElady

ONE mite

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Really? I thought it took two. Or do mites asexually reproduce like that komodo dragon? :D

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I just hate, despise, and loathe these types of threads. It is like Mark my fiancee said when reading over my shoulder; like sharks grabbing onto bait. Personally, if I bought a snake and it had mites, I would be irate. I would not make a thread on a forum until I contacted the seller and only then if he/she refused to remedy the situation.

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Just to clarify a few things...

First off, this was a rather unfortunate incident that could have easily been handled if Ed dealt with it when April initially brought it up to him. I'm sure Ed is a great guy, but there were a lot of mistakes he made that you may have overlooked:

1. He didn't handle it immediately when April first brought it up to him. He made a joke about "The gift that keeps on giving" and didn't offer any compensation. That was the end of his involvement which was why she brought it up here.

2. He claimed he had a quarantine procedure when in fact he didn't. Although I give him credit for acknowledging that he did make a mistake.

3. He told April he got the mites from a pet store rodent, and then told the forum he got it from a well known breeder without offering proof one way or the other. Claiming a big breeder has mites without proof seems rather irresponsible.

4. He admitted that he kept incoming, unquarantined snakes with other snakes that were already sold.

5. He continued to advertise his snakes without waiting for the mite treatment to take effect or at least explaining how they might be safe (although he did in a previous post to this one).

So it's not just a group of people wanting to bash Ed. Ed made a lot of mistakes, and he still hasn't answered some of the questions regarding some of those mistakes such as implicating the larger breeder without proof or why he kept April's snakes with unquarantined ones.

I believe the people on this board realize that mites happen and mistakes happen, but it's how one deals with it that really makes a difference. I think Ed can still remedy this situation if he just answered all of the questions that were asked and stop advertising any new snakes until he is completely sure that there isn't a continuing mite problem.

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Originally Posted by JasonGranger

Really? I thought it took two. Or do mites asexually reproduce like that komodo dragon? :D

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I believe they are, but if she is pregnant then they have no problem breeding mom to child/sibs etc for many generations.

~mike

No. They don't asexually reproduce. It does only take one though.......if that one mite happens to be a FEMALE about to lay EGGS.

VPI has a great page on the life history of mites on their web site including this,



"There is a common belief among keepers that mite eggs in some conditions may remain viable for extended periods. While this has been documented for some species of ticks, Camin's research on mites found no evidence to support this belief. "

Taken from here http://www.vpi.com/publications/the_...of_snake_mites

~mike

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Originally Posted by 4theSNAKElady

No. They don't asexually reproduce. It does only take one though.......if that one mite happens to be a FEMALE about to lay EGGS.

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thanks for posting, i thought that i had read that they were asexual but it might not have been snake mite, thank you for clearing that up.

~mike

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Originally Posted by xdeus

1. He didn't handle it immediately when April first brought it up to him. He made a joke about "The gift that keeps on giving" and didn't offer any compensation. That was the end of his involvement which was why she brought it up here.

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I don't think anyone can speak for April as to why she created this thread. And since Ed didn't bring this to her full satisfaction immediately, we'll never know if she would have chosen to share this with the members even if he had taken care of this situation immediately.

Lawrence, you can speak about your own experience... but April's motives are her own. We can guess at them (I am guessing it was to also alert other potential buyers that Ed has a mite issue) but it's only a guess.

;)

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

Lawrence, you can speak about your own experience... but April's motives are her own. We can guess at them (I am guessing it was to also alert other potential buyers that Ed has a mite issue) but it's only a guess.

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I mentioned that because of April's post earlier in this thread.

In it she quoted a PM and stated "And my second PM which Ed did not reply to:".

Ed made mistakes. He has now gone good for the mistake with his customer. He has learned a valuable lesson about being relaxed with his quarantine procedures (so has anyone else reading this). He has cleaned and started procedures to remove the mites and is attempting to prevent them from getting a foothold in the rest of his colony. At this point the issue is resolved in my mind.

I think this thread should be allowed to fade into the forum archives. Everyone has read it and will have access to it in the future if there is a need, but as long as none of Ed's current or future sales have issues with mites in the near future there should be no issues. Only time will tell. I am sure Ed will use extra care for awhile to be sure any snakes he sells will be mite free because he knows what to expect if he doesn't.

There does not appear to be anything left to be resolved in this thread.

I would mention to Ed that if you are going to thoroughly clean the floors religiously every 14 days with a NIX mixture, that going the extra step of pre-treating the substrate with PAM every 30 days would be a great way to avoid mites. NIX has 14 days of residual effect, PAM has about 30 days of residual effect.

Also, to Ed (and anyone else), if you are feeding live rodents, it's best to have your own closed colony of feeder rodents. This gives you security to know that nothing is going to sneak into your collection via this route.


Rick

Rick,

I think a bunch of people would be a lot more at ease if Ed would follow though with the 30 day PAM treatment and hold off on selling or listing any of his snakes for sale till he is 1000% sure that not one of his snakes has a mite(s) or any eggs lingering around.

Maybe that is just me though, I don't know.
I always say "actions speak louder then words."

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

Rick,

I think a bunch of people would be a lot more at ease if Ed would follow though with the 30 day PAM treatment and hold off on selling or listing any of his snakes for sale till he is 1000% sure that not one of his snakes has a mite(s) or any eggs lingering around.

Maybe that is just me though, I don't know.
I always say "actions speak louder then words."

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Ohh, don't get me wrong. I agree with you, but if you read between the lines, Ed has stated he is going to make continued sales. At least he will not immediately sell anything from the infected rack. We can keep this thread going and going, but there is no way we can make Ed stop selling his other snakes.

Potential future customers from this site (like SPJ) have seen this discussion and will take what chances they wish to. I suggest to them to use common sense, use very strict quarantine, but I feel the members of this site are very intelligent and will do just that, especially after reading this thread.

The only thing left that Ed can do is hold off ALL reptile sales for the life cycle period of a mite and he has chosen not to volunteer do that, so I see no other issues being resolved. It's his call to keep selling the other animals, and it's our call to take the risk or not.

Rick

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Originally Posted by xdeus

I mentioned that because of April's post earlier in this thread.

In it she quoted a PM and stated "And my second PM which Ed did not reply to:".

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thanks for the link lawrence ... she did start the thread to alert potential customers which i completely agree with. (not that it matters as i am not a potential customer [being in canada] but other customers certainly deserve to have a heads up so they can make their own educated decision as to whether or not they choose to continue doing business at this time, with ed.)

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Also I'm going to have to post what happened in the feedback forum.. I believe potential customers have a right to know.

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(Whether I agree with Ed's abundance of for sale threads or not has nothing to do with this post)


Whether or not he did anything to right the situation, it is right of April to bring it up for all to see.

Do we have a 'beating a dead horse' smilie? We need one. This thread is starting to look frighteningly like a BOI free for all.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Do we have a 'beating a dead horse' smilie? We need one. This thread is starting to look frighteningly like a BOI free for all.

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How so? The BOI unforunately does have a core group that will go after each other, bring up personal issues and refer back to things/transactions that occurred months or years prior. They are often openly disrespectful of each other. Sometimes the BOI is used very inappropriately to settle old scores and bad guy threads are started needlessly. It also does a lot of good though and deserves credit for that.

Now show me where in this thread we "beat a dead horse" or allowed a "free for all"? I've read every post. I've seen attempts by myself and others to keep this VERY specific to the situation at hand. I've not seen one personal insult allowed nor disrespect shown.

BPNet cannot have a Inquiries/Feedback forum if members are muzzled from expressing honest opinions or asking very direct questions. To do that nullifies the whole point of it and makes it nothing but an exercise in back patting. We don't often see problems between seller and purchaser and personally I applaud the membership and the Mods for keeping this polite and pretty much on topic.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

That said, Ed, if this was something you didn't know about (and I believe this is true) it is almost like I want to say, I have more respect for you for owning-up to it rather than a knee-jerk denial. If I were in your position, I would stop selling anything until the mites were definately gone and maybe even wait a few months after that. When i make a mistake once, it can be learned from; but to allow it to happen again.. would just snowball things downhill for anyone's reputation.

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This is all I was trying to say.. I really have nothing else to say about this thread.
Awesome post, Jo.

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

I have a quarantine area, but totally blew it on this one. :(

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oxymoron...............i'm only a little pregnant, casual intimacy, Christian gangster, exact estimate (you can add yours too the list) :colbert:

i hope the mites are "half dead" geeeees i just used another one!

My question is why would you (Ed) not make sure that the animals you ship out are not in tip top shape before shipping?

That in itself shows me it's more about the money than the animal! :colbert:

"beating a dead horse smiley" "beating a dead horse smiley" "beating a dead horse smiley" "beating a dead horse smiley" "beating a dead horse smiley"


~mike

Well this was a nice 25 minute read....

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

You are completely wrong about Greed and wanting to make a
quick buck, the balls that came in with the mites was something I bought for myself to keep and were not going to be sold. I have a quarantine area, but totally blew it on this one. :(

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If they were for YOU, why would you put them in the for sale room with 8 other animals, 2 of which were Aprils?

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Originally Posted by ECLARK
sorry about giving you the gift that keeps on giving. :)



That is just unbelievable.....WOW...

I dont have a problem with people who buy animals and sell them....As long as the animals are healthy, feeding, etc.. AND it is mentioned that they did not produce them....That is ok in my book...

Justin,

There were a bunch of comments you made in this thread that couldnt be more wrong...I dont feel like going back and looking but one comment that stood out was the Mike Wilbanks comment....You say he's a pro and he knows what he is doing....Shipping 5 animals in one bag is NOT the right thing to do...I dont care how big the bag is, every animal should be shipped individually....

The most snakes I have ever received at once was 5 from John Berry...A pied, pastel, and 3 normals....ALL were packed individually in round plastic containers....

I have recieved multiple snakes at once from Neil Golli, John Berry, and Alan Bosch...ALL of the snakes were bagged individually and I was VERY happy with that.......

There is just no excuse for shipping a snake with mites....If it were me personally, I would have seen the mites on the animal BEFORE shipping which I would then contact April and held off shipping until I dealt with the mites...Since it would have been my fault, I would have treated the mites, not ship them off into someone elses collection.......

Anyways...that's all ill add for now....I need to get up and stretch my legs now......

Now it looks like Ed has put a lock down on all of his ad's on Fauna. Guess he doesn't want the people over there to find out that he has had a problem with Mite's. Probably doesn't want anyone to link to this thread...again, like someone did yesterday.

I don't know if I'm more shocked or sickened with this whole thing. Maybe it is just me but it doesn't seem like Ed is playing by what he has said.... or is going to.


Ed... I LOVE that little snake I got from you, but I can not support someone who doesn't practice good quarentine, has a mite issue and yet is still throwing ad's up left and right and is stating that your snakes are "clean and in great health". Maybe I'm just reading to much in to this but I know others agree with me.

*shakes head in disbelief*
I'm trying to tell myself that you aren't in this hobby just for the money, but I'm now having a really hard time believing it since your actions are speaking louder then words.

Allison, the mite problem was very minor, by that I mean It was in 4 shoeboxes in 1 small rack. I eliminated the problem! what distresses me the most was the fact that I missed it and sent a snake out and did not know about it, when april sent me a message she stated she set them up with tubs sprayed with provent a mite. she had things well under control and I responded by sending her a can of provent a mite.


Did you not start a thread about you having respitory problems because of poor husbandry practices with all your snakes? thats much worse than some mites that can be very easily eliminate.

The snakes Im selling were no where near the rack that HAD mites. The snakes that are being treated will not be sold for along time, until Im 100% sure they are clean.

You can shake your head in disbelief all you want but the facts of the matter is everyone may have to deal with mites one time or another. Pete Kahl your boss has had to deal with them and lots of other guys and gals have had to. snakes get mites sometimes, its a fact of life. I just hope I dont have to deal with them anytime soon. :)

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Did you not start a thread about you having respitory problems because of poor husbandry practices with all your snakes? thats much worse than some mites that can be very easily eliminate

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But she has never sent a snake that wasn't quarantined to someone with a large collection.

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

Now it looks like Ed has put a lock down on all of his ad's on Fauna.

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Which ones? I was just there but none of his ads are locked to prevent replies.

Steve, I had to lock my ads due to JAS BALLS. need I say more. :P

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Originally Posted by SPJ

Which ones? I was just there but none of his ads are locked to prevent replies.

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Steve, I had to lock my ads due to JAS BALLS. need I say more. :P

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Ohh.
Nope.:D

Steve I'd just like to add that Jas only linked to this thread on to Ed's Fauna Ad's. Warning people that Ed's claim that they are "healthy and clean" may not be the complete case.


Also Ed,
I was sold a very sick snake from someone actually on this very here site. Was I told she was sick? NO! All I knew is that she had a "bad eye" and was probably blind. If I could have sent her back, I would have in a heart beat but I'm unable to ship. I would have saved a lot of money and a lot of head aches. So I did what I had to do and did take her to the vet a.s.a.p and did a strict quarentine on her on the other side of my house, in a spare bed room. She was never any where near my snakes.... but some how all my snakes did get that bad RI too. Just like mites, they can spread pretty easy. It was pretty bad. So bad to the point that Pete didn't want me coming in to work around his snakes. I don't blame him one bit, but I just wish that the seller of this female snake was completly honest. I actually got her to breed but after all the horrible things she and the rest of my snakes went though, I decided that I wouldn't attempt it this year.

Also if I had any snakes at that time for sale, I would have not sold them for a good long while since it took me so long to get rid of it 100% out of everyone. One sick snake cost me a good amount of money in vet bills and nearly took a few lives too.

I thought they went at it in the ads Ed had up.:D


Seems to be bad blood there even before the mite thread.

I dunno


to me (and this is ALL im going to say about this, b/c im not too sure of my point of view)...

some PAM wouldnt do it for me. I would want a partial discount on the snakes because :

Mites on a snake does NOT = a quality animal.

I pay breeders extra dough for quality. End of story.

I agree with this. If the animals are guaranteed to be 100% healthy upon arrival, I would expect some kind of compensation if they are anything but that. A responsible seller would own up to their mistakes. Not only does Shelby need PAM to rid the mites, but it is going to take her a lot of time, effort, and probably mental stress worrying about the rest of her collection to fix the problem.

I am not saying that Ed has not compensated, because I don't know exactly how he made it up to Shelby, but that's my opinion.

The very first snake I ever sold a few years ago, I sent out with mites out of ignorance. It also turned out to be a male instead of a female like I advertised, as the person who probed it obviously wasn't as qualified as they led me to believe. The buyer immediately notified me with his concerns, and since I was 100% at fault, I worked with him every way I could to make things right again. We ended up coming to an aggreement that only cost me a few exrtra bucks, and even after the whole situation, he was pleased with the way the transaction ended and still volunteered to give me positive feedback for my customer service alone.

That, IMO, goes just as far as the quality of the animals that you are selling.

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Originally Posted by adizziedoll

I dunno


to me (and this is ALL im going to say about this, b/c im not too sure of my point of view)...

some PAM wouldnt do it for me. I would want a partial discount on the snakes because :

Mites on a snake does NOT = a quality animal.

I pay breeders extra dough for quality. End of story.

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:rolleyes:

My God 25 pages and still going. How could there be anything new to say.
I guess at this point it's like tennis
Back and forth, back and forth.

So what can everyone take away from a thread like this..? Quarantine everything new, no matter who it comes from or how long you've been keeping, or whatever.

I agree, all that can happen from this point on is everyone taking sides and argueing with one another. theres something to take out of this thread, but you will have to do alot of reading between the lines. :salute:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jotay

:rolleyes:

My God 25 pages and still going. How could there be anything new to say.
I guess at this point it's like tennis
Back and forth, back and forth.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

So what can everyone take away from a thread like this..? Quarantine everything new, no matter who it comes from or how long you've been keeping, or whatever.

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Bingo!
Very well said.

Funny, apparently when I posted almost exactly that, I got two neg points. (karma)
Shrug. If someone has issue with me posting my opinion on a thread I guess I get neg points. At least one signs his.
I don't see that there should be such a panic over a snake having mites. It's not desired, it's not what should happen, but a lot of people get mites sometimes.
I stated way back about the "If you quarentine your animals that you buy, it shouldn't be an issue" and got slammed over that, saying I blamed the buyer. Whatever.
Mites are bad. Ed Clark didn't seem that concerned over the fact that he sent a snake with mites. That was established early on, but it's 25 pages, and spilled over into another site as well. I had mites one time too. I killed them off with PAM(Wonderful product by the way, never spray your cricket bins, NOT a good idea, even if you DID see a roach).
BTW, I recently got some pine shred from Tractor Supply, and it had mite-like bugs in it. I obviously don't use it for reptile bedding, but EWW.
Wolfy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Funny, apparently when I posted almost exactly that, I got two neg points. (karma)
Shrug. If someone has issue with me posting my opinion on a thread I guess I get neg points. At least one signs his.
I don't see that there should be such a panic over a snake having mites. It's not desired, it's not what should happen, but a lot of people get mites sometimes.
I stated way back about the "If you quarentine your animals that you buy, it shouldn't be an issue" and got slammed over that, saying I blamed the buyer. Whatever.
Mites are bad. Ed Clark didn't seem that concerned over the fact that he sent a snake with mites. That was established early on, but it's 25 pages, and spilled over into another site as well. I had mites one time too. I killed them off with PAM(Wonderful product by the way, never spray your cricket bins, NOT a good idea, even if you DID see a roach).
BTW, I recently got some pine shred from Tractor Supply, and it had mite-like bugs in it. I obviously don't use it for reptile bedding, but EWW.

Wolfy

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It's a shame you got neg rep for stating your opinion. But as I am sure you know there are some really great people on here and then there are some who, IMO, are just a little bit to full of themselves.

Too those of you who think Mites are just the price of doing business in the reptile world, I feel sorry for your collections. I have had mites twice, one time from wc Savu Pythons. Lucky for me, they were in a cage across the room from my GTP's and Balls, and Boas, and I caught it right away. The second time, I made the mistake of not really quarantining a snake I got from a well known breeder, and put a boa in with an Albino Boa. I ASSUMED getting a snake from a well known person means you do not get mites sent to you, and I was wrong, and lesson learned! Now, all my new animals, and I almost have a closed collection now, are put into a quarantine rack upstairs, until I am satisfied with their condition. So, mites do happen, but they should not happen, you should not expect mites with ANY snake purchase. Lesson here, do not assume because you buy from a "NAME" person, that you will definetly get a clean snake. I have not had mites in over 5 years, and plan on keeping it that way. It is almost a good idea to spray any cage that will get a new snake with Prevent O Mite before the new snake even has arrived. Mites piss me off, and people that state that mites are not a big deal piss me off even more! They are lazy, period.

Dave