My dealings with MKR

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

what does the rep say? if the negative rep point serves no purpose then report it to an admin to have it removed

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"can not agree with your logic, you may be next to be put out of business."

wich post did they mean?

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Originally Posted by jcaustralia

wich post did they mean?

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"Great Post Joe!!! Tell it how it is my man!!!"

You are hardly worth the time Joe, but for the sake of new members that may believe your drivel, let's just take this piece by piece.

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Originally Posted by JoeCaponeIIIMKR

Guys, I just want to say that We produce our own snakes and in high volume and keep most of them.

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BS, you purchased a large quantity of snakes from Tracy, Bob, Ralph, Greg and Kevin. You've publically admited as much on other forums, and in fact, on your own website (last I recall).

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We are also the largest in the world. THe reason why I say that is that all the 2nd level breeders didn't want to give us credit and we are larger than everyone now. Come and see.:)

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Bob, Mike (Wilbanks), NERD, Graziani, RDR and MANY MANY others are considerably larger than MKR Joe.

It's fitting... all used car salesman are the "biggest" in the world, and it seems that style of sales has transfered over to the ball python breeding industry as well.

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I am bringing this to the next level. I am going to be here to sell your kids snakes.

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Well, mine are 3 and 4 and are far more interested in tree frogs and geckos then snakes. And besides, thus far I've raised them to respect a little thing called ethics, and you sir fly right in the face of that.

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We are solid and only getting stronger and stronger. We have no debt and own everything. I am for the consumer not for people making unneccessary money on them.

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It's called supply and demand economics. The prices of these animals will fall to a level based on what the market can support. The funny thing is, contrary to your claims as to your companies size, you'll never be able to meet the demand for these guys, so really, you're just tainting everyone you sell to. Trust me, myself and many others are making notes about who has publiclly supported you, and that will end up biting them.

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Did the same thing in the car business. I am so terrible but I don't want people to screw the public.

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And the fact that you aren't in the car business, may tell us how well that worked out for you.

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So if you disagree I and everyone else sees what you want to do the public. Codoms aren't rare. Get over it.

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The "public" is, as of yet, not the target market for these snakes. We can't bring them to the public yet, because at the prices you are tearing the market down to, the market will be over run with too much demand, and not enough supply.

Co-dominate traits ARE rare. They make up less then 1% of the total population of wild and captive ball pythons. That, by definition IS rare. Take a biology class PLEASE.

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If you guys sold them the way you wanted it ruin the market and be gone because everyone would have felt they are screwed which most do now.

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Most feel they were screwed because they made an investment, and got stabbed in the back by the very people selling it to them.

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Only middle man feel that way here. I am not a mobster I am a business man. I am for my customers and the buying public. Tha is who you people serve.

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You have stated time and time again that you are going to UNDERCUT your customers any chance you have. And the buying public is not a target market for most of us, because the supply isn't large enough to meet the demand. As supply increases and demand increases, prices decrease. THAT is real economics.

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They make the decision to buy. You guys think you are in control and the customer is. I am loved and embraced by my customers and it shows in my sales.

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You honestly think your customers love you? :lol: Your customers love your prices, but you could honestly fall off the earth and no one but friends and family would so much as notice. Respect is earned in this industry, and given the venom YOUR customers receive, you have ZERO.

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I take care of them and I love them and embrace them back that is why. Ask them.

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A car salesman that loves his customers. Hard to believe anyone can even BELIEVE this drivel.

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If I were so terrible how come I sell most of the snakes. I do it is a fact. The best prices and service.

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You don't sell the most snakes. And your prices and service are absolutely NO match for your ego. Sorry guys, can't do this anymore... I'm too tired to try to translate the mortifying English Joe is using.

As for this "consumer", I won't have anything to do with MKR, or those that purchase from them :). Honestly, it's only a matter of time before you run yourself out of business Joe.

You may be big and have deep pockets, but you won't keep up for long. Seriously, you just burned your entire supply market. How long are you going to last now?

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

"Great Post Joe!!! Tell it how it is my man!!!"

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While I don't agree with giving negative rep points for posts such as that, I will say this much: get used to it. This industry is based entirely on reputation, and those that decide to support Joe and MKR are going to be tainted by it.

Now tell me, is an $800 mojave worth that?

It's taken me two nights to read both threads, and as a newbie to the hobby, I'm still learning names, quality, businesses, genetics, identification. For a long time I've had MKR bookmarked as a potential source for animals to add to my own personal collection, but something just didn't "click".

Pics are hard to see, colors are drab and just not top quality that I've seen exhibited on other breeders' sites. Animals? Site? Who knows......but after all this and continuing to compare all this information and the pics to say, NERD, Adam, RDR, etc., etc., I've deleted the bookmark and am no longer considering doing business there.

My pets will eventually lead to a business that I can enjoy and get pleasure from for many, many years to come. After breeding horses, cattle, swine, goats for years....you can't win blue ribbons on babies born from scrub stock...so I'm not giving this joker any of my hard-earned money.

JC, you should take some grammar, spelling and professionalism lessons. Maybe THEN you'll be able to impress and compell. Otherwise, save your breath. As per Einstein the PC, you're "a waste of human protoplasm".

Jesse, good luck in your plans and your breeding endeavors. Sorry U feel you need to tell the rest of the ppl to P off. All are entitled to their own opinions, but (sadly) don't be surprised, if in a few years, you're unable to sell your babies.

i wish every body would leave the poor girl alone. she is old enough to make her own choices. good luck, and people please be nice. this is more than likely the reason she got so defensive in the first place.

Jhall,

Tremendous post and dead on!! You sir, rock!

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

I just completed reading this whole thread, wow lots of venom on both sides of the fence. dont let it make you go against people that you have met on this site, chatted with and made friends with. I dont agree with the MKR mentality, but chose to take it to the BOI to discuss this issue. lets not turn this very friendly site into another , well you know what.


Morph King Reptiles seems to be doing enought damage to themselves. :salute:

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Ed, your professionalism deserves credit! I could not agree with you more on all points. Both your posts here voiced your opinions, but in a professional and courteous manor toward others. :sweeet:

You have also had issues on pricing your snakes for what you feel they are worth. While others have disagreed and stepped in to voice their disagreement/opinions publicly on those same classifieds. This is honestly my problem with this whole situation. No one should dictate what a seller prices or a buyer pays for their snakes. These discussions should take place privately, if anything! But, to harass you or anyone in your own classified or publicly about what you feel is a fare price for your snake or that buyer who left a show thrilled about a great deal he/she got on their 1st BP morph and came online to share their expirience....is just wrong IMO!

I will agree that Joe's ranting on the BOI is wayyy crazy and he is much better off keeping quite. I've seen he has lost a few supporters that could care less about his tactics or the market, but have moved on because of some comments and attacks on others who price their animals higher. Again, freedom to price your snakes as you see fit! Joe should not call other sellers crooks or greedy in public because he feels they are or have overcharged for a snake. That is their business and if the customer paid those prices, it's their business! If the customer regretted later paying those prices, it's their problem, not the sellers fault! I hope Joe opens his eyes and words things better before he loses more supporters!

No one should force their business practices or prices as to what you should charge for your snakes! A Large Established Breeder that has a ton of overhead and expenses should not force their business practices or prices on some breeder that had a few clutches of Spiders in his/her bedroom...and/or Vice Versa!

When a customer approaches your table at a show and tells you "I insist on paying $1500 for that snake you have priced for $1000", just because it's what they feel is the market value...then you should consider changing your prices! Not the seller who is two tables away and wants to charge $1500 and is pissed because your prices are lower than his/her!

As for buyers, no one should tell you what you paid for a snake is wrong or right! If you are 100% satisfied with that Albino BP you just paid $5,000 for today, good for you! If you are happy with that Albino BP you paid $750 for today, good for you! The only people that should have any real input on a sale is the seller and the buyer! The seller needs to decide what he wants to sell for and the buyer needs to decide how much he wants to pay!

Just my $0.02

Can an admin or Mod please take a look at that bad rep I got? I was just expressing my oppinion and broke no TOS or insulted anyone

jake,

send them a pm... and they'll look into it.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Bahaha...We say jump, and the canucks say, how high? :rockon:

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Are You eatting paint chips?

of course he is! it's jamie after all *duh* :rofl:

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Originally Posted by mike9452

Are You eatting paint chips?

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Not since a kid when I had a bag a day habit. Don't hate us because we own you. :D

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

of course he is! it's jamie after all *duh* :rofl:

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Mike must be new here. He'll get my humor someday...:rockon: :D

oh don't worry jamie... with the amount of "humour" of yours we all wade through daily... he'll catch on soon enough :rofl:

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

oh don't worry jamie... with the amount of "humour" of yours we all wade through daily... he'll catch on soon enough :rofl:

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:wuv:

oh man... i fall for those cutie eyes of yours everytime!!!

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

oh man... i fall for those cutie eyes of yours everytime!!!

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I'm a sexy mofo

you are jamie... you most certainly are!!!

So Joe, where are your answers to the questions posed to you? As I expected, you have no answers. Is the grass roots campaign over with yet, or are you still trolling Myspace and cold calling young girls to sell your snakes? I gotta say, that doesn't sound like something the biggest BP breeder in the world would need to resort to.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I'm a sexy mofo

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O please someone get out the shovels its getting really deep in here :8: :8: :8: .

You know, I have not come across many people posting or saying anything about any snakes bought from MKR. I see many who are thinking of buying from them.. but, on here and another forum I frequent; no one talks about their pastel, spider, etc. from MKR. Just something I noticed.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

O please someone get out the shovels its getting really deep in here :8: :8: :8: .

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I have my waders on!

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

You know, I have not come across many people posting or saying anything about any snakes bought from MKR. I see many who are thinking of buying from them.. but, on here and another forum I frequent; no one talks about their pastel, spider, etc. from MKR. Just something I noticed.

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Curious isn' it?

he probably sell more on whole sale then one on one.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

You know, I have not come across many people posting or saying anything about any snakes bought from MKR. I see many who are thinking of buying from them.. but, on here and another forum I frequent; no one talks about their pastel, spider, etc. from MKR. Just something I noticed.

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Andre has bought from them before. So has ssscales. I think someone else did too.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

You know, I have not come across many people posting or saying anything about any snakes bought from MKR. I see many who are thinking of buying from them.. but, on here and another forum I frequent; no one talks about their pastel, spider, etc. from MKR. Just something I noticed.

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Maybe they really have nothing special to talk about:P .Ya know its like when your parents tell you when you were a kid "if you cant say something nice, dont say anything at all" or "its not nice to lie".Just my opinion:cool:

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Originally Posted by bpkid

Andre has bought from them before. So has ssscales. I think someone else did too.

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You can find those people on the MKR forum. They are becoming regulars there. You know who you are folks. :colbert:

thanks but im not a sir.:P

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Jhall,

Tremendous post and dead on!! You sir, rock!

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Originally Posted by Thunder Kat

thanks but im not a sir.:P

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Are you JHall?

I swore when the last MKR post came out I wouldn' get involved in any more of them but I couldn't help my self. I saw a lot of back and forth and not alot of dealing with the real problem.

I didn't read this thread all the way through and I might should have. But is it my understanding that you (jesse_pyhtons) bought from them in order to afford to start your breeding program? If so Congrats on your fature project!!! I Applaude you 100%. You supported a company that got you started we all did at one time.. Now will your supplier buy back your investment when they put you out of business as a breeder??? Cause that is there vision statement as a company to stomp out all the little guys. To shut down all small time breeders (this means you, me, Cue, ect) and become the only ball breeder in the country. Did you consider what would happen if they do? All that money invested and you have to take the lose.

Just a thought. This is not a flame by any means. I just feel that as a small- starting out breeder you would not want to feed the fire that is trying to consume you.

Good luck with your project and best wishes with any ferther interactions with Joe and MKR.

Best of luck Ed

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Are you JHall?

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BAMM!!

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Originally Posted by Thunder Kat

thanks but im not a sir.:P

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Fairly certain I am... and a very single one at that. So tell me about yourself.

Oh dear, Jamie is starting to rub off on me :).

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

Oh dear, Jamie is starting to rub off on me :).

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:O Run away!!! :O
:bolt:

:P :P :P

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Originally Posted by JLC

:O Run away!!! :O
:bolt:

:P :P :P

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If only I could. But this is one of the few places in the world I can get away with saying I'm looking for a sweet, young woman that loves balls without anyone taking offense.

At least Jamie isn't literally rubbing off on me, as that would be very uncomfortable.

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

At least Jamie isn't literally rubbing off on me, as that would be very uncomfortable.

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I charge a fee for that service...

he does... and it's worth every penny!!!!!!!

(yes i said penny cause it's not an expensive charge!)

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

he does... and it's worth every penny!!!!!!!

(yes i said penny cause it's not an expensive charge!)

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What can I say? I'm easy like Sunday morning...

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Originally Posted by kavmon

bchapman, you see nothing wrong in plugging a sale on a thread about another breeders sale?


i personally don't agree with using false motives to make a sale. i don't agree to taking advantage of a good forum just to make a sale. if you are a regular member and participate in the forums and people come to you, that's different. if you're only here to make a sale and all you do is plug yourself and throw ads, i find that low and not honorable! that's not how i live and not how i treat people.


vaughn

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i dont agree with chiming on on another breeders sale, the impression I get is that MKR get torn apart no matter where they post on this site. But then, I am still new here, I have no idea what is going on.. i shouldn't form opinions on things I am not familiar with.

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Originally Posted by bchapman

i dont agree with chiming on on another breeders sale, the impression I get is that MKR get torn apart no matter where they post on this site. But then, I am still new here, I have no idea what is going on.. i shouldn't form opinions on things I am not familiar with.

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So far, every post they've made has been to advertise for themselves. I have yet to see a post where they participated in offering advice to other members' problems. It appears to me, and many others that their only reason for joining this forum was to generate more sales. That's what the banners and side ads are for, and it's against the TOS to advertise in threads.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I am sure that is what it is, because they are the only ones selling "nice looking" morphs... :rockon:

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People can buy their snakes wherever they want. What does it matter to you? It's like someone getting pissed off at walmart because they put small town businesses out of business. People still shop there, so what?

Unfortunately, at the end of the day - it is just business. They have good customer service and all of their customers appear to be very happy. Some of their ethics definitely aren't practiced by other breeders - but it is also something that they should not be chastized for.

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Originally Posted by bchapman

Some of their ethics definitely aren't practiced by other breeders - but it is also something that they should not be chastized for.

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Are you kidding me? Do you realize the US has current laws on the books that do just that? Consumer price gouging, price fixing, anti-monopolization, employment, polution... I could go on forever.

If you don't "chastize", or at the very least judge a business by its ethical practices, what should we make are judgements based on... price?

Nike has children producing several lines of their shoes in sweat shops in third-world countries. Walmart has made it a practice to hire illegal immigrants and pay them less than minimum wage. Enron publicly lied and illegally altered their accounting records with the sole purpose of misinforming the public about the companies stability, resulting in MASSIVE losses to their shareholders, previous employees and consumers.

Should we hold NONE of these companies liable for their anti-ethical decisions? That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. Granted MKR's ethical dillema's don't hold a candle to the previous situations, however, it's a clear indication that ethics should play a very SERIOUS role in how we make purchasing decisions.

I've always been awed by the lack of humanism when it comes to our ever-growing "corporate world", but it's comments like these that REALLY make me nervous. Are we really at the point, that we can ignore ethical promiscuity, because it may save us 10 cents on a Butterfinger? What a sad thought...

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Originally Posted by bchapman

People can buy their snakes wherever they want. What does it matter to you? It's like someone getting pissed off at walmart because they put small town businesses out of business. People still shop there, so what?

Unfortunately, at the end of the day - it is just business. They have good customer service and all of their customers appear to be very happy. Some of their ethics definitely aren't practiced by other breeders - but it is also something that they should not be chastized for.

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Like you said earlier, you haven't been privy to all the information. MKR is screwing their customers by selling them investment animals and then dumping the market on that animal. How do you think their customer will feel when they go to breed that animal and its worth nothing because of the wonderful job MKR did of devaluing that particular morph. There is more going on than meets the eye.

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Originally Posted by bchapman

It's like someone getting pissed off at walmart because they put small town businesses out of business. People still shop there, so what?

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I hate Walmart!!! We have to shop there because they did drive all the small guys out of business. Walmart has been the downfall to the economics of our country, they drive prices down by strong-arming the manufacturers. They expect companies to follow all their rules for shipping which includes palletizing by store and location, if their rules aren't followed they fine the manufacturer and get the products even cheaper and alot times FREE. Most manufacturers have no choice but to fall in line or their products won't be carried. Have you ever walked into Walmart for a certain item and found they don't carry it anymore? Thats why. They run other companies into the ground in the name of cheap prices, but they still make more off that product because they screwed the supplier. When Walmart has driven everyone else out do you still think their prices will be low? Nope, they will have a Monopoly and can charge whatever they want. Everytime they open a store I see fulltime jobs, affordable healthcare and retirements fly out the window. How do the manufacturers recover from the losses they incur from Walmart? They pay less wages, hire more part-time help and less full time, cut heathcare benefits and pay less to retirement funds. So tell me who ends up getting screwed?

Now do we really want to help Walmart and MKR become Monopolies?


Sorry for the rant, just want people to realize that one way or the other we pay extra for "bargains".

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Originally Posted by jglass38

What can I say? I'm easy like Sunday morning...

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I want that tshirt!! And now I've got the silly song stuck in my head. :evileye:

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

You are hardly worth the time Joe, but for the sake of new members that may believe your drivel, let's just take this piece by piece.



BS, you purchased a large quantity of snakes from Tracy, Bob, Ralph, Greg and Kevin. You've publically admited as much on other forums, and in fact, on your own website (last I recall).



Bob, Mike (Wilbanks), NERD, Graziani, RDR and MANY MANY others are considerably larger than MKR Joe.

It's fitting... all used car salesman are the "biggest" in the world, and it seems that style of sales has transfered over to the ball python breeding industry as well.



Well, mine are 3 and 4 and are far more interested in tree frogs and geckos then snakes. And besides, thus far I've raised them to respect a little thing called ethics, and you sir fly right in the face of that.



It's called supply and demand economics. The prices of these animals will fall to a level based on what the market can support. The funny thing is, contrary to your claims as to your companies size, you'll never be able to meet the demand for these guys, so really, you're just tainting everyone you sell to. Trust me, myself and many others are making notes about who has publiclly supported you, and that will end up biting them.



And the fact that you aren't in the car business, may tell us how well that worked out for you.



The "public" is, as of yet, not the target market for these snakes. We can't bring them to the public yet, because at the prices you are tearing the market down to, the market will be over run with too much demand, and not enough supply.

Co-dominate traits ARE rare. They make up less then 1% of the total population of wild and captive ball pythons. That, by definition IS rare. Take a biology class PLEASE.



Most feel they were screwed because they made an investment, and got stabbed in the back by the very people selling it to them.



You have stated time and time again that you are going to UNDERCUT your customers any chance you have. And the buying public is not a target market for most of us, because the supply isn't large enough to meet the demand. As supply increases and demand increases, prices decrease. THAT is real economics.



You honestly think your customers love you? :lol: Your customers love your prices, but you could honestly fall off the earth and no one but friends and family would so much as notice. Respect is earned in this industry, and given the venom YOUR customers receive, you have ZERO.



A car salesman that loves his customers. Hard to believe anyone can even BELIEVE this drivel.



You don't sell the most snakes. And your prices and service are absolutely NO match for your ego. Sorry guys, can't do this anymore... I'm too tired to try to translate the mortifying English Joe is using.

As for this "consumer", I won't have anything to do with MKR, or those that purchase from them :). Honestly, it's only a matter of time before you run yourself out of business Joe.

You may be big and have deep pockets, but you won't keep up for long. Seriously, you just burned your entire supply market. How long are you going to last now?

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Okay...

that was an awesome post

:rockon:

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

I hate Walmart!!! We have to shop there because they did drive all the small guys out of business. Walmart has been the downfall to the economics of our country, they drive prices down by strong-arming the manufacturers. They expect companies to follow all their rules for shipping which includes palletizing by store and location, if their rules aren't followed they fine the manufacturer and get the products even cheaper and alot times FREE. Most manufacturers have no choice but to fall in line or their products won't be carried. Have you ever walked into Walmart for a certain item and found they don't carry it anymore? Thats why. They run other companies into the ground in the name of cheap prices, but they still make more off that product because they screwed the supplier. When Walmart has driven everyone else out do you still think their prices will be low? Nope, they will have a Monopoly and can charge whatever they want. Everytime they open a store I see fulltime jobs, affordable healthcare and retirements fly out the window. How do the manufacturers recover from the losses they incur from Walmart? They pay less wages, hire more part-time help and less full time, cut heathcare benefits and pay less to retirement funds. So tell me who ends up getting screwed?

Now do we really want to help Walmart and MKR become Monopolies?


Sorry for the rant, just want people to realize that one way or the other we pay extra for "bargains".

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ive gone back through the threads using the handy search function and I now see where you are all coming from..

that is really lowballing what they are doing, and if all the reported stuff on here is definitely as true as it appears to be, then i am appalled by their apparent lack of ethics.

i am sorry if i came across as a supporter, i never was - i was just supporting free enterprise.. but now i realise that it wasn't an enterprise they were running at all

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Originally Posted by bchapman

People can buy their snakes wherever they want. What does it matter to you? It's like someone getting pissed off at walmart because they put small town businesses out of business. People still shop there, so what?

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I see it more like....

You just checked out at Walmart with $200 in groceries, then the next person in line was only charged $100 for the same amount of stuff. So to find out what is going on you ask a manager and they tell you " Right after your purchase we got in a big shipment of goods and now have alot to sell, so we are cutting our prices in half."

Walmart or not....I would always be hesitant purchasing from them again....Because only heaven knows, next time when you buy your groceries for $100...the guy right behind you is only going to have to pay $50 ;)

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

I see it more like....

You just checked out at Walmart with $200 in groceries, then the next person in line was only charged $100 for the same amount of stuff. So to find out what is going on you ask a manager and they tell you " Right after your purchase we got in a big shipment of goods and now have alot to sell, so we are cutting our prices in half."

Walmart or not....I would always be hesitant purchasing from them again....Because only heaven knows, next time when you buy your groceries for $100...the guy right behind you is only going to have to pay $50 ;)

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Yeah, I kinda see how it is with them. I feel dirty for even considering defending them in the name of how business works. It is shallow and below the belt to stab customers and other breeders in the back. I see breeding as something that you should be able to collaborate with others on and be able to share the benefits - not try to take everything for yourself and ruin your customers chances of making a name for themselves before their products even reach an age at which they could do so.