Live prey vs......

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Originally Posted by bearhart

I feed mine live kittens. People are always giving them away free - saves on $.

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seriously...you may be kiddin (or so I hope) but really NOT funny.

:colbert:

kitty cats :) but on a serius note a accidently eat cat once, twas in bornoe they served cat curry, i though it was chicken, i vomited for 3 days straight

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

seriously...you may be kiddin (or so I hope) but really NOT funny.

:colbert:

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Yes I was kidding of course. It was meant to be a joke along the lines of saying something so outlandishly offensive that it was ridiculous (it works on comedy central!!! :oops: )

Since then I've figured out that this sort of thing just can't work on a forum. I never intended to actually piss anybody off. I've asked for it to be removed but I can't do much more.

My apologies.

hehe no matter m8, crp happens. i think most peeps knew it was mentt o be a joke=)

I prefer f/t. however i do have a couple that will not eat f/t no matter what i try. so i don't really have a choice when it comes to them. i might try to get them on f/t again at a later date.

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

seriously...you may be kiddin (or so I hope) but really NOT funny.

:colbert:

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lol i feed my carpet python a hopper a week also i give my california king a pinky lol

i think its depressing to try and make my bp eat a dead frozen piece of meat that just sits there. i believe she rather enjoys looking around her tank for the mouse. that and she wont take the frozen stuff anyway...yuck.

I feed mostly live but at times I give f/t and at times I pre-kill...

I don't know about your snakes but my Ball is deathly afraid of f/t food, she will have nothing to do with it, so I'd say live. Unless you have a snake that takes a while to eat I would feed f/t for risk of the snake getting bit.

I am attempting to switch my entire collection ( which consists of 1.0 '07 Mojave and 0.1 '07 spider at this point) to f/t rats with mixed success. I am doing this purely for convenience. I'm not in a position to raise rodents and I'm not a big enough customer for live rodent delivery but I do have a chest freezer.

I started feeding FT , Then after adding some animals that would only take live I started to breed my own. As someone else stated ,its nice to know what your feeders have been eating. we use high quality rodent cubes with good results. Its nice to go out to the rat racks and have correct size prey for any animal. I feel thier feeding response is far better feeding live. I have a boa that is 18 years old that has never had anything but live without a single issue. FT was convenient for us because we would but 200.00 worth at a time from a breeder 20 miles away. Im confident that 80% of our collection willl eat FT but am very happy breeding my own. I dont miss writing out that feed bill check. $18.00 worth of feed makes alot of rats!

I feed my BP live mice (He's still pretty small) because I really think he enjoys the hunt. Ive seen him twitch his tail in what I'm sure was excitement when I dopped a mouse in his cage. I might try switching to pre-killed once he gets big enough to eat rats. Those look like they could hurt a snake if it gets cornered.

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Originally Posted by aweve124

I feed my BP live mice (He's still pretty small) because I really think he enjoys the hunt. Ive seen him twitch his tail in what I'm sure was excitement when I dopped a mouse in his cage. I might try switching to pre-killed once he gets big enough to eat rats. Those look like they could hurt a snake if it gets cornered.

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You'd be surprised at how quick your animal will get that rat when you drop it in.
Most rats I feed are weaners. They got teeth, nails, and are prepared to defend themselves. BUT, (huge but)
The rats don't really care. They run around the tub, maybe hide, sniff the water bowl, just checkin stuff out, then the snake comes out of no where and hits it incredibly fast, coils, and done.

I can't say a snake has ever cornered something... the rat may have squeezed into a corner where the water bowl is, but for me, the jury has said that the rat doesn't even know that death is imminent. Just my .02$

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I can't say a snake has ever cornered something... the rat may have squeezed into a corner where the water bowl is, but for me, the jury has said that the rat doesn't even know that death is imminent. Just my .02$

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I think they were referring to the rat cornering the snake.


:)

aweve124,

If you drop your prey in there and the snake doesn't want it...I wouldn't call it cornering ...just the snake trying to get away.

That is why you should ALWAYS monitor your feedings....if your snake doesn't want it you take it out immeditely and no harm done.

Rats that are kept in a good enviroment and that are fed and watered propely are not normally aggressive anyways.

And rats aren't nealy as aggressive a mice.

just sayin'

I must have the retarded group of mice then. They just sit there cleaning themselves, or don't even hit the floor.

"Oh! A new cag- FWAP!"

Yeah, that's about how it goes :)

If the snake stares at it for 5 minutes or longer, then the mouse is removed and I try again next week. You get to know your snakes and when they don't want food(rare for my piglets).

My boa and short tail are the only ones who get f/t on a semi-regular basis. The boa gets a small live rabbit every so often just to keep her in shape and sharp. The short tail I haven't tried live with.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

I must have the retarded group of mice then. They just sit there cleaning themselves, or don't even hit the floor.

"Oh! A new cag- FWAP!"

Yeah, that's about how it goes :)

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:8:

that's exactly how it goes!

lol!

I have never heard a good argument for feeding live or PK over frozen thawed. For me it is simply a matter of will the snake take F/T if not well there you go, but if it will why would you not. Honestly I really don't care one bit how other people feed there animals.


Chuck

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Originally Posted by Chuck

I have never heard a good argument for feeding live or PK over frozen thawed.

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well in the time that I have been here I have seen some really good debates on this subject.

I would say that most people that have posted about the subject have made some very good points.

:gj:

One of the points that was made is that when you feed live there is a much higher nutritional value. When frozen/thawed the prey loses some of that value. I prefer to feed my snakes the healthiest food I can provide. That is why I started breeding my own rats. Not sayin that f/t is not healthy.

;)

Now one of the downsides to feeding live is convenience...Not everybody can get live prey..so f/t is the route to take.

For me it isn't about who feeds their snakes what...it's that they are feeding them properly and safely.

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Originally Posted by Chuck

Honestly I really don't care one bit how other people feed there animals.
Chuck

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oh...that's nice.

:oops:

I think it’s not about live vs. f/t it is about what works for your snake(s) and is convenient for you.

I used to feed f/t but it is no longer convenient with a growing collection, I now mainly feed live and breed my own rodents, a few BP are kept on f/t so I am not overstock with large rats.

And if done responsibly both can be done safely.

Interesting, what nutritional value is lost by freezing. I was unaware that was the case. I would like to know more about that so hook me up with that info if you would.
I think with F/T you have no risk of the rodent injuring the snake and there is significantly less of a chance if any that your snake could contract parasite from the F/T rodent. Now I know there are people out there who supervise there live feeding to prevent injury and breed there own rodents under the best conditions so they have nothing to worry about as far as rodents contracting parasites. I just don't see supervising the feeding of every snake in a large collection and thawing a bunch of rodents and doing whatever during that and tossing them in after they are thawed as that much more work. That said I believe what I believe and everyone else what they believe. I am not trying to change anyones mind here just trying to explain why I don't get feeding live if you don't have to. Merry Christmas:)


Chuck

All of mine eat live mice or rats. With proper scenting of their cages it is easy to tell if they are going to be willing to eat. On a set schedule nothing stays alive in their tanks for more than a couple of minutes.

Just what works for me:D

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

In my opinion ... responsible live feeding is just as safe as feeding pre-killed. I've been feeding live to many ball pythons for many years and have never had a single ball python bitten, scratched, or mauled.

Before we get our panties all twisted up, please note that I am only giving my OPINION based on the fairly decent amount of experience I have working with ball pythons and having tried feeding them live, frozen, and pre-killed.

Anyone that thinks live feeding is "dangerous" is certainly willing to stop by my shop any feeding day and watch a couple hundred live rats go "down the shoot" without incident :D

Again ... this is my OPINION ... breathe deep and get over it :neener:
I agree adam!
I think the feeding response is so much better with live anyway!
Feeding live doesnt mean you throw in a rat and come back in two days. You offer, watch with stats in hand , offer assistance if needed. When the rat stops moving and is obviously dead go to the next tub. I have some balls that absolutely will not take nothing but live period. Its all about responsible feeding practices folks!


-adam

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er... read through every page of this earlier today( so Ive missed about 6 pages) but you guys made me feed my first live to my lesser who wasn't eating f/t for the past few feedings.:O


Wasn't too bad, other than the guilt factor everything went alright, the snake was much more interested then any of my snakes had ever been eating f/t!


Sorry for the off topicness

Live all the way

Frozen so far. Have yet to try live. Mine is small enough that frozen seems easier and safer due to I dont want to raise my own food.
I have heard to many neg. on live.
Foe example. they can hurt your snake - they can carry sickness if you dont know what your buying - I hear that live makes the snake more opt to strike at you.

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I hear that live makes the snake more opt to strike at you.

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:rolleyes: and why would that be? :confuzd:

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Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

:rolleyes: and why would that be? :confuzd:

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Because of the movements and that your snake might mistake your movements as its food.. So I have heard..:confused:

live prey is what i found my snake wont eat the dead hek one mouse looked straight at him and fell over and died and he still diddnt eat it i had to go allthe way back to get another:snake:

I have kept many different species of snake and have always fed them on Thawed.
I had one Royal (Ball) that initially would not eat anything but live, but I managed to get her to feed on dead by following a method shown to me by a friend.
She turned out to be the biggest female I have ever owned.
In the UK, pet stores won't sell you live mice to feed to snakes therefore getting a supply of food was a nightmare
Now all my snakes food supply can be kept in the freezer until required, I'm happy their happy

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Originally Posted by WaRocker

Because of the movements and that your snake might mistake your movements as its food.. So I have heard..:confused:

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I only feed live. The only time mine have ever struck at me was fear based, not as a result of a feeding response.

I always fed live with no problems...but when I rescued a BP that was near death and partially blind from very badly capped eyes, I wanted her to eat live still so I started smacking the rats on the ground pretty hard while they are still in the paper bag. When I dump them in her feeding tank they are still moving and live... but are severely stunned... To avoid feeling like a jerk I tell myself it is more humane this way because there is no way they will bite my snake.. and the live rat doesn't see what is coming... You don't have to watch the rat realize it is going to become lunch. Now I do this every time even though she is fully recovered. The first time I fed my red tail... I tried to do the same thing but the large rat didn't wasn't even phased by two heavy thumps on the hardwood floor... and when it got in the the feeding tank it was like every other live feeding I had seen until the strike ... The rat fought back screached and as soon as it was wrapped up I got close to look... And my heart almost stopped when I saw the rats with it's mouth open around my snake... I was so upset... Until he started to move to injest and I saw that the rats teeth sitting on the surface of his scales and no puncture... THANK GOD for the two smacks on the hardwood... Knocked the rats teeth loose so that when It tried to take a mouthful of Ziggy ... It's teeth just came out... That large rat would have done some serious damage. Snakes do get bit by live feeding... even happens in the wild... I have even heard of internal bites and wounds that get infected and turn fatal... Those are almost impossible to treat. I love my snakes to much to take the risk of putting a fully aware rat in there... even though the risk is small... It is there and can be avoided if you knock the wits out of the rat first.

I feed f/t and if you can get your snake to eat f/t i think you will have a much easier time getting food, storing food, and feeding. I dont see too many cons to feeding f/t, unless you really like to see your snake kill its prey, which I admit is pretty exciting. I find it easy to buy in bulk (rodentpro.com), reasonalby cheap, and dont put my snake in a position to get bit or hurt in any way.

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Originally Posted by jwenker1

I feed f/t and if you can get your snake to eat f/t i think you will have a much easier time getting food, storing food, and feeding. I dont see too many cons to feeding f/t, unless you really like to see your snake kill its prey, which I admit is pretty exciting. I find it easy to buy in bulk (rodentpro.com), reasonalby cheap, and dont put my snake in a position to get bit or hurt in any way.

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Not knocking your statement... makes a lot of sense and sounds like it's working great... While their are no major cons about feeding F/T...It has been proven that feeding live IS more nutritious if you consider the oxygenation of the blood, and the rest of the fluids in the body that are fresh and more beneficial for the snake. Not to mention that the act of the hunt is not only fun to watch... But also allows the snake to exercise a more natural behavior... Which I believe is also good for them. I have never heard of a snake being a scavenger in the wild... They are perdetory animals by instict and feeding pre killed I feel it does not allow them to exercise there natural born instict. Just my friendly oppinion.

F/T works for many people, P/K works for many people, feeding live works for many people. the main thing is to figure out what works best for you and your collection. When I only had 2 snakes I fed P/k no big deal. Now that I have "a Few" more I raise my own feeders and feed live. the main reason for this is the waste that I would see feeding only F/T if 5 or 6 of my animals don't eat one week then I have to deal with that many thawed refused rats most of the time I would just have to throw them away. Now if every week 4-5 differend animals refuse at 1.00 rat plus shipping I am just throwing 240.00 a year down the tubes. With raiseing my own rats if the snake doesn't eat the rat get put back and on till next week no waste. If some get to big to feed to my balls I just sale them to a local feeder store and keep rocking.

This will not work for everyone the main thing is to find what works for you and go with it

I feed f/t...as far as doing the zombie dance and stuff, is this necessary? I just thaw it out prescenting the room, and drop it in, and it my bp takes it down, no problem, and my roomate does the same w/his.
I ask because I honestly do not know, maybe I just don't have a picky snake.

I feed live. There are three reasons I do. 1. That's what my snakes were being fed when I got them. 2. I asked at the local pet shop for frozen and the owner nearly fell over laughing (apparently everyone around here feeds live or drives for 1/2 hour to get frozen). 3. I can't bring myself to stun 'em.