prekilling your snake's prey by yourself?

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Yes, and if you don't hit hard enough? That is where the not being 100% comes in. Plus, bigger rats take more force.

Sorry, but it just is NOT humane, no matter how you wanna put a spin on it, it isn't.

Neither is stunning for that matter. The next best thing is cervical dislocation, which takes a practiced hand as well.

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My question is this... we can go on and on debating what is the right or wrong way or which method works best but the point is to use such words as inhumane to do it in certian ways doesnt cut it. first off it is considered inhumane to kill the rat/mouse in any method used. you're killing a living breathing creature. 2nd you're killing it or feeding it alive to another animal. in the wild it is considered mother nature at its best and or the life cycle of the creatures lower and higher up the food chain. but for a human to kill an animal to feed to another animal so they can have the pleasure of having such reptile in captivity is inhumane in itself. any way you look at it technically it is inhumane to kill or feed a live animal to another animal for your pleasures of having one in captivity. either way you look at it, it is inhumane. there is no humane way of killing an animal for your enjoyment of another. this is only my opinion and i know some may feel differently but that is how i see it.

xanaxez I see where you are coming from, but the term "humane" is a tricky one. In american society, that word comes in to play most often with treatment of livestock and pets. There are certain standards that have both legal and moral implications attributed to the word "humane".

These standards dictate socially and morally acceptable methods for killing livestock, putting down pets, and in the case of our hobby killing feeder mice(could be considered livestock I guess).

I'm not an expert on the subject by any means, but there are a few things you have to consider for any suggested method for "humanely" killing animals of any sort(this list is probably not comprehensive, and covers everything from ethics to practicality):

1) duration of the process. Quick is better than slow and drawn out.

2) amount of pain during the process. None or negligible is generally the acceptable amount. Generally, instant death is considered no or negligible pain experienced(it takes something like .75 seconds to register a traumatic painful occurance in the human body.. I forget the exact number)

3) ease of performing the process. If it's tricky, it is easy to screw up, and screwing it up usually results in what would be considered "inhumane" treatment by any prescribed standards.

4) cost of performing the process. This needs to be considered since we are all millionaires. It would be nice to say that cost isn't an issue, but it always is.

5) safety of performing the process. If you're risking your own safety with dangerous chemicals/equipment around, it's a bad method. If for some reason potentially dangerous items are necessary, then an extremely careful safety protocol should be followed.

6) scale of the procedure. Large scale operations obviously will function different than small scale operations. What is practical for 100+ cows a day is probably very impractical for a few litters of mice every few weeks.

7) mental anguish on the performer. Let's assume that bashing a mouse's skull in is an instantaneous and humane way to pre-kill(I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but let's assume that it is generally accepted as such). If you're going in to tears every time you do it so you can feed your snake, then this method is NOT one you should perform. Some will say that you should rethink owning a snake as well. This is something that should be considered when judging how humane a method of killing an animal is. I just imagine all the vets that put down terminally sick pets, they certainly have depressing jobs as it is and I'm glad they have better ways that smacking someone's pet dog with a heavy blunt object.

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Originally Posted by starmom

:soapbx:

Oh good gods, people- what is your issue????

Thumping a rat to pre-kill??? Seriously barbaric and potentially insanely inhumane.

Why on earth do something like that when you can just give the live rodent to your snake and allow the normal process to commence???

Some people think that since we have taken the snakes out of the wild then their feeding instincts have changed? Or we try to change their feeding instincts? Oh please. And protect them from everything?? I can't even protect my own kids from everything!! No one has that amount of control; only the illusion of it.

If you fear that a larger rodent would harm the snake, feed multiples of mice. No big deal and not rocket science to figure out.

So, is it fine to thump a snake? No. Use a more compassionate method.

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i'm just worried that she'd get bit again.

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Originally Posted by xanaxez

My question is this... we can go on and on debating what is the right or wrong way or which method works best but the point is to use such words as inhumane to do it in certian ways doesnt cut it. first off it is considered inhumane to kill the rat/mouse in any method used. you're killing a living breathing creature. 2nd you're killing it or feeding it alive to another animal. in the wild it is considered mother nature at its best and or the life cycle of the creatures lower and higher up the food chain. but for a human to kill an animal to feed to another animal so they can have the pleasure of having such reptile in captivity is inhumane in itself. any way you look at it technically it is inhumane to kill or feed a live animal to another animal for your pleasures of having one in captivity. either way you look at it, it is inhumane. there is no humane way of killing an animal for your enjoyment of another. this is only my opinion and i know some may feel differently but that is how i see it.

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Your right, that is only your opinion, since humane euthanasia has been clearly outlined by the AVMA, and also clearly outlines which ones can be very inhumane when done incorrectly.

http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_we...euthanasia.pdf

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Originally Posted by python baller

i'm just worried that she'd get bit again.

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Feed f/t or CO2 pre-kill, or feed multiples of mice and that will do wonders with deleting that fear.

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Originally Posted by starmom

No it hasn't. We're talking about methodologies.

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Alright then, well I use CO2.

I do not have the time or resourses to make a CO2 chamber. It doesn't matter which way your looking at it its still a living thing and you are going to kill it. How is dispatching your prey items any different then setting a trap for a wild mouse? Is that wild mouse's life any less important than a prey item? I treat all prey with utmost respect until Calypso dispatches them or I dispatch them for Kyros. I take the best care of my prey that I possibly can to make sure that they are healthy and happy. I will make a CO2 chamber when I know that everything else I need is taken care of. I however do NOT approve of thumping. I dispatch my prey by severing the spinal column. Its fast and as I see it the best way besides CO2. If you want to talk inhumane My old school used to tie a string around prey's neck suffacating it.. THAT is inhumane in my opinnion and so is thumping.

So today was feeding day and I tried cervical dislocation and damn near pulled the tail right off! Sure it was probably my fault becuase it was my first time, but I had no remorse or anything, I knew the mouse was gonna die any way, I just helped in the process. It is my belief that these snakes are bred in captivity for a reason, our enjoyment, so it is our responsibility to feed the pet any way we feel necessary. It's the circle of life people, each pet owner is an individual with different views on responsible pet ownership/husbandry. I usually thump my mice in an old pillow case and then feed it to my snake. Today I tried one live feeding and one cervical dislocation, and guess what, the snake ate it regardless. Just my two cents

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Originally Posted by Basketball303

So today was feeding day and I tried cervical dislocation and damn near pulled the tail right off! Sure it was probably my fault

Oh, ya think?

becuase it was my first time, but I had no remorse or anything,

I'm sorry you had no remorse for the unnecessary pain you caused

I knew the mouse was gonna die any way, I just helped in the process.

...poorly

It is my belief that these snakes are bred in captivity for a reason, our enjoyment, so it is our responsibility to feed the pet any way we feel necessary.

Arrogant point of view


It's the circle of life people, each pet owner is an individual with different views on responsible pet ownership/husbandry. I usually thump my mice in an old pillow case and then feed it to my snake. Today I tried one live feeding and one cervical dislocation, and guess what, the snake ate it regardless. Just my two cents

Two cents aint worth what it use to be....

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Originally Posted by simplechamp

Who decided that causing asphyxiation with CO2 is the most humane? For all we know it could be more painful and terrible for the mice than a quick thump on the head. How do we know they just "slowly fall asleep" from breathing CO2? I can't imagine suffocating would be any more pleasant than getting knocked instantly unconscious.

If someone wants to prekill by thumping the rodent then it's their choice. There are many animal rights activists who would say everyone on this forum treats animals inhumanely by keeping them in captivity in tiny enclosures. No matter how humane you think you are there will always be other people who think you're doing things wrong.

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First of all, you have a snake. And like most people on here, you don't know how the snake REALLY kills it's prey do you?
You think the snake suffocates it's prey? Here is what I was told by my veterinarian, as well as a couple of books I have read. Snakes do not constrict and suffocate. They constrict the circulatory system, not the respiratory. Suffocation takes 5-6 minutes. When however, they constrict, they feel for the heart and literally try to stop the heartbeat. Stopping the circulation of blood flow is much faster and much more painless.

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Originally Posted by xanaxez

My question is this... we can go on and on debating what is the right or wrong way or which method works best but the point is to use such words as inhumane to do it in certian ways doesnt cut it. first off it is considered inhumane to kill the rat/mouse in any method used. you're killing a living breathing creature. 2nd you're killing it or feeding it alive to another animal. in the wild it is considered mother nature at its best and or the life cycle of the creatures lower and higher up the food chain. but for a human to kill an animal to feed to another animal so they can have the pleasure of having such reptile in captivity is inhumane in itself. any way you look at it technically it is inhumane to kill or feed a live animal to another animal for your pleasures of having one in captivity. either way you look at it, it is inhumane. there is no humane way of killing an animal for your enjoyment of another. this is only my opinion and i know some may feel differently but that is how i see it.

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Do you have a dog or a cat?
How would you feel, if your vet said your cat or dog was ill and needed to be put down. Instead of humanely euthanizing it, they would hit it on the head with a hammer and hope it dies. This is a living, breathing animal. If you have pets, such as snakes, you need to treat it's prey with the same respect as the animals you consider your companions.
Humane refers to as painless as possible. CO2 is the best bet for that. Whacking the animal often times just stuns it, and does not kill it. The blood flow is still going to the brain, and it is still feeling PAIN.

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Originally Posted by starmom

Originally Posted by Basketball303 View Post
So today was feeding day and I tried cervical dislocation and damn near pulled the tail right off! Sure it was probably my fault

Oh, ya think?

becuase it was my first time, but I had no remorse or anything,

I'm sorry you had no remorse for the unnecessary pain you caused

I knew the mouse was gonna die any way, I just helped in the process.

...poorly

It is my belief that these snakes are bred in captivity for a reason, our enjoyment, so it is our responsibility to feed the pet any way we feel necessary.

Arrogant point of view


It's the circle of life people, each pet owner is an individual with different views on responsible pet ownership/husbandry. I usually thump my mice in an old pillow case and then feed it to my snake. Today I tried one live feeding and one cervical dislocation, and guess what, the snake ate it regardless. Just my two cents

Two cents aint worth what it use to be....

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:gj: