Am I a bad person!

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I know someone that fed a F/T to his snake and the snake died!

Does this mean people should not feed F/T? :rolleyes:

The bottom line is to feed what works and what is convenient to the owner, but to do so RESPONSIBLY.

There is no Live vs F/T debate.

I feed over 100 of preys each month and none of my snakes ever sustained any injury.

Usually when there is a problem and a snake dies, it ultimately comes back down to the owner and his methods.

If done responsibly both live and F/T can be done safely, if done irresponsibly both can be dangerous.

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:rofl: I need you to PLEASE tell me how the F/T killed the snake. Was it too big or something?! I don't know HOW someone could mess that up.. I mean.. come on..

I totally agree. I just don't feel safe doing it. I have to sometimes, but I try to avoid it. My mice bite me.. I don't want them to do the same to my snake..

Some people however, do not know how to feed live responsibly. Which is why, I recommend trying f/t or pk for beginners just because they may not know exactly what to do. If it doesn't work, and if they have future snakes more than likely it won't work once or twice, then they'll have to come onto a site like this and learn. :]

F/t prey can easily damage or even kill a snake if fed improperly. If the prey item isn't thoroughly thawed, it will rot in the snake's digestive tract causing a regurgitation or possibly death if the snake is unable to regurge.

The limbs and nails on f/t rodents are generally harder/less pliable because of the onset of rigor mortis, and may scrape the inside of the snake's mouth or esophagus, causing an infection which can lead to an abscess. If the infection is left long enough, the bacteria can lead to sepsis, which is a guaranteed death without massive amounts of strong antibiotics.

Your snake has evolved over millions of years to be very efficient at hunting and killing prey. I've seen my snakes take a bad grab every so often, and even if the mouse is able to bite, the snake knows that and will wrap tighter or wrap another coil around to immobilize that mouse. Their epidermis is tougher than you think, snakes aren't delicate little flowers with paper-thin skin. Rodent nails aren't going to leave huge gaping wounds in their skin and minor bites aren't going to affect them as long as they have a decent immune system.

SO! Feed appropriate sized prey items(adult mice or nothing larger than a small rat-55-65g in weight) and the snake won't have any trouble. Feed large and jumbo rats and that's where you get into problems. Pre-scenting the room prior to feeding is also a very important aspect in feeding live or f/t.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

F/t prey can easily damage or even kill a snake if fed improperly. If the prey item isn't thoroughly thawed, it will rot in the snake's digestive tract causing a regurgitation or possibly death if the snake is unable to regurge.

The limbs and nails on f/t rodents are generally harder/less pliable because of the onset of rigor mortis, and may scrape the inside of the snake's mouth or esophagus, causing an infection which can lead to an abscess. If the infection is left long enough, the bacteria can lead to sepsis, which is a guaranteed death without massive amounts of strong antibiotics.

Your snake has evolved over millions of years to be very efficient at hunting and killing prey. I've seen my snakes take a bad grab every so often, and even if the mouse is able to bite, the snake knows that and will wrap tighter or wrap another coil around to immobilize that mouse. Their epidermis is tougher than you think, snakes aren't delicate little flowers with paper-thin skin. Rodent nails aren't going to leave huge gaping wounds in their skin and minor bites aren't going to affect them as long as they have a decent immune system.

SO! Feed appropriate sized prey items(adult mice or nothing larger than a small rat-55-65g in weight) and the snake won't have any trouble. Feed large and jumbo rats and that's where you get into problems. Pre-scenting the room prior to feeding is also a very important aspect in feeding live or f/t.

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I didn't know that about the nails being tougher!
Interesting. :]

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Originally Posted by Venenito_X_Remedito

Many people are giving you are hard time about it... Take it to heart, but don't take it too personally. You did what YOU thought was right, though now you know it wasn't the best choice.

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I do not think anyone is giving the OP a hard time... they are giving them information. That is a good thing...

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

I agree with both of you. I don't think its wrong to feed live but when the snakes are in need of adult animals to eat, it can get dangerous..

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I agree with SI on this. Feeding smaller prey. I feed my corn FT but she can take several live crawler rat pups over a larger FT. But out of respect for the pups I do not feed them.

Do they pose a threat to her (?)... not at all.

As far as snakes in captivity lacking a killer instinct. I do not really buy that. Snakes are not domesticated like cats and dogs, etc. I really doubt that this early on we have bred out a killer instinct. And being that snakes are still being pulled from the wild, I doubt the bloodlines are that *clean* yet.

bruce

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Originally Posted by rabernet

The only recognized humane way to pre-kill is by a CO2 chamber

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So it's not humane to kill a rodent by giving it a quick whack, but it is humane to feed live to your ball python and let it die slower? I knowing whacking it may seem inhumane, but the fact of the matter is, it's quick and easy. Quicker than feeding live even. Don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with feeding live. I'm just saying killing it quickly with a whack is no worse, it might even be MORE "humane."

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Originally Posted by yeahyeah

So it's not humane to kill a rodent by giving it a quick whack, but it is humane to feed live to your ball python and let it die slower? I knowing whacking it may seem inhumane, but the fact of the matter is, it's quick and easy. Quicker than feeding live even. Don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with feeding live. I'm just saying killing it quickly with a whack is no worse, it might even be MORE "humane."

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Snakes kill quickly and efficiently. Whacking very often doesn't. There is a reason why smashing a rat against a concrete floor didn't make the list of humane euthanization methods.

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Originally Posted by yeahyeah

So it's not humane to kill a rodent by giving it a quick whack, but it is humane to feed live to your ball python and let it die slower? I knowing whacking it may seem inhumane, but the fact of the matter is, it's quick and easy. Quicker than feeding live even.

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Really? Most scientific evidence shows that the constricting of the snake literally stops the flow of blood, making the animal pass out quickly.

When executed perfectly, a head lock has the potential of knocking you out within seconds. Your putting pressure on your jugulars, not the throat. This stops blood flow to your brain and can make you pass out under a minute. You'll also feel the effects immediately.

Snakes have had million of years to knock out their prey efficiently and quickly. The longer a prey item is struggling and scratching, the more damage a snake is going to take. Snakes have evolved into very effective and efficient killing machines with the power of their constriction.

So yes, whacking is very inhumane compared to live feeding, so is stunning. The chance for error is high, and if it takes more than one whack, you did it wrong.

I agree, co2ing is more humane and more guilt free. If i ever whacked one of my rats I do not know if I could live with myself. I put one of my pups in with lesser and turned around to see it looking at me and WHACK lesser had it:( I like the dry ice approach personally. Id feed bigger prey live but Lesser has already been bit twice!

I would have gone with live. I have switched over all my snakes to live. Some were raised on FT and it took them a few feedings to learn how to strike properly. A bad strike on a mouse is not that big a deal. They may get a few scratches but they will learn very quickly (one or two feedings) how to do it right.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Most scientific evidence shows that the constricting of the snake literally stops the flow of blood, making the animal pass out quickly.

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Should have said stops "them from breathing. Many hypothesize the stopping blood flow enough to cause cardiac arrest..." (It's a monday :oops:)