How can you tell your BP likes you?

I'm always surprised that these threads get hi-jacked to the point of bringing up evolution. Totally irrelevant........ya know why no one wants to talk about it, it's nonsense.

before everyone in this thread wants to keep on judging, i have a story, so please read it w/ compassion and an open mind.

I have a snake that i am very close to. I enjoy her company, and i know that she enjoys mine as well...you may be wondering how i know this, so keep on reading... One day, i was fondling her, i could just feel something. there was a strange aura in the air.

Something was up, so i decided we should have a heart to heart, i sat her down on the couch, oh how does she love to cuddle on the couch, and just told her how i felt about her. i know she was listening by the number of tounge flicks she gave. 1 tounge flick means yes, 2 tounge flicks mean no, and 3 tounge flicks means maybe. You may say this is crazy, but i know this snake and this is how she communicates. I can't speak for anyone else's snake, but i can for mine.

anyways, w/o going into too much detail about what was said, cause it's private and personal you know, i put her back in her cage. I could tell something was up as i began to walk away, i felt a vibe, as if she missed me or something.

I reassured her that i would always be there to "listen" to her tounge flickers.

But i noticed something and this is for everyone one of you that say snakes do not show emotion, by golly she was shedding, not her skin, but tears!

http://redpython.net/images/crying.jpg

by the way, i hope no one in their right mind takes this post serious.

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Originally Posted by redpython

before everyone in this thread wants to keep on judging, i have a story, so please read it w/ compassion and an open mind.

I have a snake that i am very close to. I enjoy her company, and i know that she enjoys mine as well...you may be wondering how i know this, so keep on reading... One day, i was fondling her, i could just feel something. there was a strange aura in the air.

Something was up, so i decided we should have a heart to heart, i sat her down on the couch, oh how does she love to cuddle on the couch, and just told her how i felt about her. i know she was listening by the number of tounge flicks she gave. 1 tounge flick means yes, 2 tounge flicks mean no, and 3 tounge flicks means maybe. You may say this is crazy, but i know this snake and this is how she communicates. I can't speak for anyone else's snake, but i can for mine.

anyways, w/o going into too much detail about what was said, cause it's private and personal you know, i put her back in her cage. I could tell something was up as i began to walk away, i felt a vibe, as if she missed me or something.

I reassured her that i would always be there to "listen" to her tounge flickers.

But i noticed something and this is for everyone one of you that say snakes do not show emotion, by golly she was shedding, not her skin, but tears!

http://redpython.net/images/crying.jpg

by the way, i hope no one in their right mind takes this post serious.

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ROFL

At the risk of committing a fair amount of anthropomorphism, I'm gonna add a couple cents worth here...

I'm not gonna say a decade ago, or 2 or 3, but I DO remember learning in school that humans are the only animals capable of emotions, or knowledge of right and wrong, etc.

That being said, I have a dog that I have had for about 10 years. She's a good dog. But she sometimes gets in trouble. She's always happy to see me. (just threw that in there). But... If, while I was away at work, she has gotten into a trash can and eaten all the kleenex that she found in it, she is VISIBLY apprehensive when I walk in the door. I know immediately that she is going to be in trouble. Is it remorse, fear of the punishment she knows is coming? I don't know. It LOOKS like remorse. When my son comes to visit, she gets incredibly excited, more excited than when most anyone else comes in, including people that she knows well. I can say without a doubt, that she is HAPPY to see him! My dog definitely shows emotion, and knowledge that she has done something wrong when that happens. I can also see the emotions in her facial expressions. Its difficult to identify exactly what I'm seeing, but I can tell.

Now snakes. Even more difficult to identify it, but it seems that I can tell if one of my snakes that assumes the strike position is actually going to strike. I can't tell you why, but it seems that I can tell if a look is curiosity, or "Don't mess with me!" Sometimes a dog that is wagging its tail may be about to rip your arm off. But if you're observant, you should be able to tell. Kinda the same thing with the snakes.

Next... a couple of months ago, I was bitten by one of my snakes that had never shown any aggression towards me before. She just whipped around and nailed me on the hand. But it wasn't unexpected. In fact I was wearing gloves at the time, because I did expect it. She was not about to let me have those eggs! Was it pure instinct, motherly instinct, love, knowledge and reason? I don't know. But like Sonya16 said, I'm not ready to conclude that "lower life forms" are completely incapable of possessing any of the qualities that we have so dearly held onto for ourselves. I won't go to the extreme of saying that my snakes love me, but I will go so far as to say my dog does.

Steve

Hoo-t I think anyone that has spent a lot of time around dogs, particularly groups of dogs, would say they obviously do experience emotion. I do not know if they experience the array of emotions in the same way we do, but on the other hand not all people experience emotion in the same way either.

But like people dogs are pack animals, they live and hunt in groups and their ability to communicate with each other is important to the group harmony and survival They have complex forms of body language, and people can learn to read a lot of that body language over time. Domestic cats maybe solitary animals in nature, but because cats put a lot of energy into raising their kittens those traits are transferable to humans (they can bond and see us as playmates, food providers, nurturers, etc…).

Snakes on the other hand do not raise their young (beyond guarding the eggs in some cases). They are designed to survive autonomously, and they do not need to cooperate with other members of their species outside of mating or relay a variety of different expressions via body language for the purpose of communicating. They are just very different.

A hundred years ago virtually no one would believe it if you told them gorillas could learn to communicate through sign language. It would be a crazy and laughable idea as anyone could “obviously see” they were stupid, primitive animals that just ran on pure instinct and were incapable of higher thought.

This has been a really interesting thread. I think as keepers of unconventional animals, it's really important for us to keep open minds - after all, that's what we ask others to do when we tell them about our hobby!

I think we just don't know what snakes think/feel/experience, but it would be human arrogance to assume they don't feel anything. Without getting into esoteric definitions - this is just my humble opinion - I believe that every living creature has an experience of love in some form or another.

As humans, the closest we'll get to a snake 'loving' or even 'liking' us is for them to trust us. To associate us with security, warmth, care, and consideration.

Now - you might all laugh and think I'm crazy - but I do believe snakes have ways of communicating to us, and even bonding.

This is the tale of a new ball python and her first shed:
I was totally worried because I live in Arizona and she was going into her first shed cycle. No matter what I did, I couldn't keep the humidity up beyond 60%. Misting, water... the air sucks moisture right out in this climate. I was very tense that she would have a bad, rough shed.

One night, I had a vivid dream in which my little baby python told me (out loud) that she was going to have a perfect shed and I should stop worrying.

The next evening, she did. Picture-perfect.

Bonding? Me wish-fulfilling in a dream? Who knows. But it felt like a real connection.

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Originally Posted by Sophiax

As humans, the closest we'll get to a snake 'loving' or even 'liking' us is for them to trust us. To associate us with security, warmth, care, and consideration.

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Yeah I agree with that. I get upset by the notion that "animals don't have feelings" because that is always the excuse used by those that abuse them. I am not saying the people who believe that are abusers, but the abusers choose to believe that so they can justify whatever they feel like doing.

well I consider all my reptiles and bird to be wild though they are captive breed because they jus will never be like my dog or cat and be predictabe they are much more there own persons ( animals) I think that is why I like hem so much I know my bird loves me or tolerates me cause I am the only one he does not bite bu as for my reptiles I think hey like to be well cared for and enjoy careful handeling and I think they too can like a person over another

"ITs ok to eat fish
cause they haven't any feelings...

something in the way..."

-Kurt Cobain


It's egomaniacal to think that animals do not have a spiritual center, which is where emotions are created from. Native Americans and other primitive tribes around the world revere the natural world and it's relation to emotion. Our intellects may outgrow us and leave our troubled puddle like bodies useless and listless.

IQ shmy-cue. Ever seen a dolphin create toxic emissions or suck the last drop of fossil fuel out of the ground. Instinct and emotion are inexorably linked and we can't condescend the creatures on this planet who haven't evolved. Maybe we evolved out of our own self-destructive convenience.

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Originally Posted by kanarybird

It's egomaniacal to think that animals do not have a spiritual center, which is where emotions are created from. Native Americans and other primitive tribes around the world revere the natural world and it's relation to emotion. Our intellects may outgrow us and leave our troubled puddle like bodies useless and listless.

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So is your theory based on theology?