Lock them up..

Suck it up homie. I'm surprised you haven't been blasted yet, with the way you come on here with your 10 months of experience or whatever and whine and argue with experienced breeders and keepers, not to mention mods and Admins. And calling mods ignorant...? If you are going to give less than recognized proper advice, expect to be challenged. Especially when you don't have any experience to back up your experiments. Not saying that they don't work for you, I'm just saying what everyone else has been, that when a new owner comes on with problems or questions, they should get answers that will help them and their snake, not some JP experimental type schmit. So suck it up.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

A true leader doesnt throw in a cheap shot to one of its own community members especially when theyre supposed to be the one setting examples.

You pleased only yourself by making that comment.

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And a mature person does not throw this

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what about your backround gives you the right to say "ideal"... you have a degree in zoology or done personal studies that have been posted in a magazine or something? Im going to guess the answer is no just like you not trying to house them in anything other than 12qt. I always thought ideal snake requirements were 2 snug hides... temps between 78-83 cool and 88-95 warm... humidity above 50%... I didnt know there was an "ideal" size.. i stick to my previous statement... your ignorant.

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Which to me is an intelligent way to call people stupid.

Let's see anyone as ever questioned your education or told you were ignorant since you have been here :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

A true leader doesnt throw in a cheap shot to one of its own community members especially when theyre supposed to be the one setting examples.

You pleased only yourself by making that comment.

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Josh, ENOUGH! Back it down, hush it up and know you've overstepped yourself with this community and specifically with one of it's most valued members! Judy is a VERY solid Admin of this site and does NOT lose her patience easily. You've pushed publically AND privately and it ends.....right here, right now.

I've not been involved in this thread so I can and will moderate it as I see fit and that can and will involve you being censured for continually antagonizing and disrespecting staff! I hope I'm really clear here Josh. The next step is yours, I'd suggest you consider it most carefully. No one has asked for your attitude and I for one will not see it muck up this thread or any other.

I guess that this whole thing stems from reading somewhere, that someone had quarantined a snake at another location, brought it home, and thereafter started breeding it. Do I remember the precise place I read this? No, but it is one of those things that you read, that was posted by a breeder that you trusted, and remembered later. Personally, I (actually my husband, but aren't we one unit ;) observed and handled the snake over 60 days before I bred him. That would have technically been a quarantine of 60 days; only, that half of them were spent in my home by the snake, and half were at his former home. I felt that, in conjunction with him being parasite-free, this would be a safe indication that he was not bringing anything in that could harm my snakes.
Did I really take into account that it might stress him out and make something crop up? Not that much. I guess that, being the admitted beginner that I am, this is just something I learned with experience. I won't do this again.. I have seperated him for his own sake, to let him acclimate more, I guess. Do I think that he holds anything offensive that could harm my colony? No, based on tests and the quarantine stated. Do I want to be one that rushes males into breeding for the sake of saving some time? After thinking more and seeing the rather strong reaction here, Enn-eee-ooo-NO. :) So all I can do now is wait things out..
The whole issue about breeding young males that are around, say, 200g. That seems risky to me. Why? I am not going to let myself off the hook and just blindly say it seems wrong; I will explain the reasoning behind my thoughts. I think that any animal needs a chance to grow on a little at least, and spend calories and energies on itself, making it into a strong and healthy animal before it is just resigned to breeding purposes.
I am going to start a new thread, though. I think it'd make for a lively discussion :)

I was thinking though, for future reference. Let's say that it is wrong to observe a snake for quarantine purposes, in another location, for 30 days, and then just do 30 days in your home instead of 60 more. Once the snake was moved out of your quarantine room, to your community rack, wouldn't it then be fair to say that you needed another extra 60 days of quarantining? Being in a new location in the same house does not seem to be that different from bringing a snake from one home to another. I am honestly not trying to be a smart-butt here.. I just want to know.

Wow Josh, you duh yerself a hole there buddy.. *snort*

Gin, in my personal experience, I know that sometimes when animals are moved from a place where they are comfortable and not showing signs of disease, to an unfamiliar place with different bacteria/viruses/etc, the stress of that move can cause the immune system to react to all of that, thus triggering an onset of illness.

It happens in rats ALL of the time. I quarantine them for 30+ days at my vet's office, get them tested for internal parasites, let them get the bugs out of their system, but even then, sometimes just the car ride home can trigger an immune response, and they start having respiratory symptoms(labored breathing, porphy nose and eyes, gasping, full-blown pneumonia).

So, even if a snake or other animal looks healthy and has been seemingly healthy for the last 60 days, it doesn't mean the snake doesn't have internal parasites that haven't developed into a full-on infection, or a respiratory infection that is just in the beginning stages, ya know?

Just my 14 cents and some :)

So in theory, all of my animals are in quarantine right now. I can definately agree with that. I read in the rescue-QT post that, if a new animal is brought in, and another animal has been in QT for, say 15 days (or ten years).. they all go back to square one.
So my solution to the debacle I have created? All of my snakes are considered to be in quarantine. I was not planning on selling anything anytime in the near future, so this is fine with me.
I might dig myself into deep rocky holes. But I can dig out just the same. It is not something that I haven't had practice in before!

The way I look at it Jen is if someone else is doing the quarantine, then for me it's not quarantine because I have no control over their practises. Unless I was incredibly confident in this other person, I'd still QT when they hit my home.

Example, you know I'm boarding Lynn's young boa for her right? Now Morgaine is perfectly healthy by all accounts, she's being cared for properly and as carefully as I know how to. Would I still encourage Lynn to quarantine Morgaine when she takes her home just to be on the safe side....you bet I will. :)

I look at it as a lesson learned. Everyone is in their permanent tubs now and I will watch everything for 90 days before making any changes.
I don't see a problem with the snakes that were bred, though. I know of cases where gravid females were shipped to people. I am pretty confident that the 2 girls which were bred to my Spider have taken already.. so now begins a waiting game. But that is what BP breeding is all about; waiting :)