Is the high price market dying?

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Originally Posted by JLC

The value of the animal is set by the owner/seller.

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The PRICE is set by the seller, the VALUE is set by the buyer. The fire pastel is too easy and cheap to produce to command anywhere near a 15k and especially 30k price tag. The ingredients needed to make it are just too common.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I have certain snakes that I wouldn't sell for what people interested in them are most likely willing to pay.

-adam

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I agree with that. I would not sell my het lavenders for almost any price. But that still does not mean het lavenders are worth the ridiculous price it would take for me to sell mine.

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Originally Posted by pfan151

The PRICE is set by the seller, the VALUE is set by the buyer. The fire pastel is too easy and cheap to produce to command anywhere near a 15k and especially 30k price tag. The ingredients needed to make it are just too common.

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Meh...I think we're playing with semantics here. I'm not a scholar of economics, by any means, and therefore may be guilty of not using precise terminology to get my ideas across.

My point is...when dealing with a specific animal (or whatever other unique object you want to subsitute)...the value of that animal is wholly dependent on what the seller is willing to let it go for. If you're talking about a general group of animals...such as pastels...and any ol' pastel will do...then the buyer can determine how much they are willing to spend on such an animal and try to find a seller who feels the same. But if you're talking about a very unique animal and maybe only one or two or three are even in existence...it's value is determined by the seller. If the seller is unwilling to let the animal go for less than $XXXX no matter what...then that is its value. It doesn't matter if he ever actually gets that much money for it or not.

And as I type this, I realize our difference of opinion may not be so much semantics as it is "point of view." I'm considering the value from an individual's point of view, while you are considering the value from a "market" point of view. I agree completely that a huge price tag for a fire/pastel seems unreasonable because the "ingredients" to make one are a fraction of that price. Personally, it would be worth it to me to put in a little time raising up breeders to produce my own if I wanted one that bad. BUT....for that specific animal....it's value is whatever the seller is willing to take for it...because it's the only one out there and if someone wants it badly enough, they'll have to pay what he's willing to take.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Meh...I think we're playing with semantics here. I'm not a scholar of economics, by any means, and therefore may be guilty of not using precise terminology to get my ideas across.

My point is...when dealing with a specific animal (or whatever other unique object you want to subsitute)...the value of that animal is wholly dependent on what the seller is willing to let it go for. If you're talking about a general group of animals...such as pastels...and any ol' pastel will do...then the buyer can determine how much they are willing to spend on such an animal and try to find a seller who feels the same. But if you're talking about a very unique animal and maybe only one or two or three are even in existence...it's value is determined by the seller. If the seller is unwilling to let the animal go for less than $XXXX no matter what...then that is its value. It doesn't matter if he ever actually gets that much money for it or not.

And as I type this, I realize our difference of opinion may not be so much semantics as it is "point of view." I'm considering the value from an individual's point of view, while you are considering the value from a "market" point of view. I agree completely that a huge price tag for a fire/pastel seems unreasonable because the "ingredients" to make one are a fraction of that price. Personally, it would be worth it to me to put in a little time raising up breeders to produce my own if I wanted one that bad. BUT....for that specific animal....it's value is whatever the seller is willing to take for it...because it's the only one out there and if someone wants it badly enough, they'll have to pay what he's willing to take.

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I can agree with most of that. To me the problem with trying to get that much money for a "rare" double codom is that in a few months when this seasons eggs start hatching it won't be rare any more and all prospective buyers know that.

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Originally Posted by pfan151

I can agree with most of that. To me the problem with trying to get that much money for a "rare" double codom is that in a few months when this seasons eggs start hatching it won't be rare any more and all prospective buyers know that.

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LOL....I never disputed that point at all. I didn't say there had to be logic behind whatever price a seller chooses to set. ;) I just wanted to defend his right to make his choice...and if no one wants to pay $15K for it, he is under no obligation to let it go for any less. Everyone else will just have to wait until they are more readily available. :P

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Originally Posted by nephrurus

If I know you, then who are you?

Someone brought it to my attention that you guys had alot to say about my fire pastel, and thats fine.

The bottom line is that these snakes are worth what the people breeding them say they are worth. I didn't see any threads bashing Will Slough for the price tag of the Banana, where are those threads???

The fire pastel that I am selling is the first and only fire pastel for sale EVER!!!

I forget who mentioned it but in this thread someone said that they wouldn't have to wait to make a fire pastel, someone could just buy mine and that is exactly right. We are americans, it is our god given right to want what we want and want it yesterday! And that is what I'm providing, instant gratification.

Yes, I dropped the price. Why? I need the money...simple as that. Do I NEED to sell this snake....no......am I going to take advantage of the oppertunity to sell it while its the only one for sale? You damn right I am.

Its my snake, buy it, make it, appreciate it, just dont be jelous :taz:

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I didn't have this thread intended at you...it was just the first one on kingsnake that I saw.

Your right that you can charge whatever you want...but since I have been on here...no one buys snakes for more than 2000$ from what I have seen, except the huge breeders...but they likely have that snake so therefore they wouldn't buy it. But hey we all need money so good luck with that.

But I hope to breed my own fire pastels next year for a lot less...thats all im saying.

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Originally Posted by JLC

the value of that animal is wholly dependent on what the seller is willing to let it go for.

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Just missing a little part to that equation

Value is the equilibrium point on what a seller is willing to sell for and a buyer is willing to pay for.

Examples...Sellers sells high and buyer buys high than that product has high value (Diamonds)

Seller sells high and buyer not willing to pay such a price means low value (gasoline)

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

Just missing a little part to that equation

Value is the equilibrium point on what a seller is willing to sell for and a buyer is willing to pay for.

Examples...Sellers sells high and buyer buys high than that product has high value (Diamonds)

Seller sells high and buyer not willing to pay such a price means low value (gasoline)

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I think you missed one of my previous paragraphs. If you're talking about groups of things with many different sellers...such as diamonds or gasoline....then what you say makes sense.

But if you're talking about a one-of-a-kind (or just a specific item, even if others like it exist) then that is NOT true. There may never be an "equilibrium" between what the seller is asking and what a buyer will pay.

I have a 100% het caramel female who is just shy of breeding weight and age now. She might have a "street value" of $4000......BUT....if someone were to fall in love with THIS snake and want to buy her from me, they would have to be willing to pay me $1,000,000! Because that's what she's worth to ME. I would not be willing to let her go for a penny less. Therefore, that is HER value. Not the value of just any ol' het caramel girl...but the value of THIS one.

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Originally Posted by JLC

I think you missed one of my previous paragraphs. If you're talking about groups of things with many different sellers...such as diamonds or gasoline....then what you say makes sense.

But if you're talking about a one-of-a-kind (or just a specific item, even if others like it exist) then that is NOT true. There may never be an "equilibrium" between what the seller is asking and what a buyer will pay.

I have a 100% het caramel female who is just shy of breeding weight and age now. She might have a "street value" of $4000......BUT....if someone were to fall in love with THIS snake and want to buy her from me, they would have to be willing to pay me $1,000,000! Because that's what she's worth to ME. I would not be willing to let her go for a penny less. Therefore, that is HER value. Not the value of just any ol' het caramel girl...but the value of THIS one.

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I see whatcha mean

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Originally Posted by JLC

She might have a "street value" of $4000......BUT....if someone were to fall in love with THIS snake and want to buy her from me, they would have to be willing to pay me $1,000,000!

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The problem is that emotional value is a subjective measure for which there is no real equation to convert into a static dollar value. I can understand setting a price point in you mind that you would consider (I do the same with our collection), but economically speaking, the actual value can only range between the lowest accepted bid and the highest refused offer (or in short-hand, what the market will bear).

The reason I advocate an animal registry and documentation of morph lineage and quality is because it woud normalize industry averages, and reduce the number of excess low quality animals that ultimately devalue the nicer specimens (for example - the drop in price of spiders in correlation with the increasing number of lower quality spiders).