IJ Carpet Python X Ball Python!

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Originally Posted by bait4snake

I have a great solution to this whole "I like hybrids" versus "creating hybrids is a sin against Mother Earth and causes global warming" argument.

I call it "Hybrid Offsets". For as many hybrids as you produce, breed that many pure bloods. Preferably morphs ;)

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Taken care of that this year.
One Clutch Carpalls
one Clutch Boas
2 clutches Ball Pythons
1.4 pastels and 6 normals and one cute spotted one.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...a/100_0626.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...a/100_0619.jpg

I should state that some hybrids ARE fertile.

While mules are not, the wholphin is documented as capable of producing young with dolphins. There are some found in the wild, and recently a wholphin in captivity birthed a baby :)

I know it isn't largely impacting the entire "hybridizing is a sin against nature" argument but I jus thought I should point out it isn't true anymore that young are always sterile.

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Originally Posted by smilin-buddha

Taken care of that this year.
One Clutch Carpalls
one Clutch Boas
2 clutches Ball Pythons
1.4 pastels and 6 normals and one cute spotted one.

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HAHA, right on!

See purists, everything is ok. He has attoned for his sins.

Now we have to wonder.. what would Spiders, Pastels, etc. bred to JCP produce? I wonder if half of them would be Pastelly and half (roughly) "normal" in their BP characteristics?

I think they look interesting, although I'm not particularly pro-hybrid myself. The problem I have with it though is in the responsibility of the humans involved. If documented and done responsibly I think hybrids do have their place no matter what the species. But when things happen like someone brought up corn snakes, or even king snakes, where you don't know what's what, or buffalo, where they're trying to bring back the herds, but they're having a lot of difficulty finding pure buffalo in all the cow/buffalo crosses, that's where I have problems with it. Not even so much the cornsnakes though, as long as they're kept captive, and not let go. But I don't think the very different from the normal looking hybrid balls are a problem, because they're so distinct even if the breeder was to not be responsible, then it would stick out like a sore thumb as not a normal ball. I don't see a huge moral difference between inbreeding your morphs, to outcrossing to other species. Both are horribly unnatural, and I find it hard to swallow that you'll get up on your soap boxes and speak against the horrors of unnatural hybrids while all the while breeding unnatural morphs that will probably be so genetically unhealthy and deficient (i.e. some dog breeds) that we'll start running into some ridiculous health problems.

And speaking of dogs, that's an inbreeding problem, not an outcrossing problem. Maybe if they were outcrossed we could over time get rid of some of the ridiculous health problems from centuries of excessive inbreeding.

I think the snakes look cool! I am very curious to see how healthy, what behavior (carpet or ball) and what the demand is for these animals. It's not something I would do but I don't see it as horrific. As far as breeding designer morphs, you are only increasing the gene pool so you should have healthier animals long term. Hybrids are different species that may or may not be compatable so health and behavior concerns are very realistic. If the animals thrive I think it's fine, but you won't know untill you try it. Someone has to play mad scientist. I hope they work out and the animals are happy, healthy and don't have an idenity problem. LOL.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Now we have to wonder.. what would Spiders, Pastels, etc. bred to JCP produce? I wonder if half of them would be Pastelly and half (roughly) "normal" in their BP characteristics?

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I'm wondering that myself! Personally, I think it's a beautiful snake, and I'm glad this was brought up so I could see the pics.

I have very few morals to worry about keeping up with, though :D

I say breed these things to a BallXBlood ;)

Then breed that to a BallXAngolan!

At least it would still be 50% Ball in the end, lol.

This is so funny to me...

ooooooooooo, think about a Ball X Green Tree!!!!!!

Sorry... too much coffee. I enjoy stirring the pot a little more :D

I think the snake is interesting looking.. BUT.. many of you are overlooking the most critical issue with hybrids.

Smilin-buddha breeds his ball python and carpet python to see if it's possible and to make some quick cash, and he sells them honestly as what they are.. a hybrid.

Smilin-buddha sells a male hybrid ball/carpet to John Doe, who raises it and breeds it to his female ball python and it reproduces. Some of the hybrids look more "ball pythonish" and are sold honestly as hybrids.

The people who bought these ballxcarpet X ball python get bored (and possibly tired of anti-hybrid people) and put them up for sale. They don't sell very well because even though they look like a ball, they are known to be hybrids and many people are not interested. Perhaps years later one person sells his to the local petshop as a ball python.

My friend happens into a petshop and finds a nice large adult female ball python that looks a little different, perhaps some odd trait. He buys it to breed or perhaps he is hard up for cash some day and offers me an "adult female ball python" and I buy it to help him out and because I can always use another adult female..

Now I could have a hybrid in my breeding colony that is not a pure ball, but I may no idea..

You see.. this is the issue people have with hybrids.

Now, this is my opinion. We are all entitled an opinion. Keep in mind, I am not for or against hybrids so please do not flood me with negative feedback merely because you may not agree with my statements. If you do not agree, please 'discuss it' since that is the reason for this forum.

Rick

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I think the snake is interesting looking.. BUT.. many of you are overlooking the most critical issue with hybrids.

Smilin-buddha breeds his ball python and carpet python to see if it's possible and to make some quick cash, and he sells them honestly as what they are.. a hybrid.

Smilin-buddha sells a male hybrid ball/carpet to John Doe, who raises it and breeds it to his female ball python and it reproduces. Some of the hybrids look more "ball pythonish" and are sold honestly as hybrids.

The people who bought these ballxcarpet X ball python get bored (and possibly tired of anti-hybrid people) and put them up for sale. They don't sell very well because even though they look like a ball, they are known to be hybrids and many people are not interested. Perhaps years later one person sells his to the local petshop as a ball python.

My friend happens into a petshop and finds a nice large adult female ball python that looks a little different, perhaps some odd trait. He buys it to breed or perhaps he is hard up for cash some day and offers me an "adult female ball python" and I buy it to help him out and because I can always use another adult female..

Now I could have a hybrid in my breeding colony that is not a pure ball, but I may no idea..

You see.. this is the issue people have with hybrids.

Now, this is my opinion. We are all entitled an opinion. Keep in mind, I am not for or against hybrids so please do not flood me with negative feedback merely because you may not agree with my statements. If you do not agree, please 'discuss it' since that is the reason for this forum.

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BINGO!!!!!!!! Finally someone gets it........... This already HAS happened to me. A number of years ago I was in a pet shop and saw a pair of Northern pine snakes. They looked slightly different then usual, not much different , just a little more colorful, and I thought they were interesting. So I bought them and raised them up. Then I bred them and when the babies hatched, they were all over the place in looks. One hatchling looked just like a bullsnake, one looked just like a pine snake and the others were somewhere in between. The largest baby was at least twice the size of the smallest and the patterns were a mishmash of this and that. THEN it was very apparent that my original breeders were actually pine snake/bull snake hybrids. I had just spent 2-3 years getting them up to breeding size just to produce snakes that did not breed true.

This WILL happen to ball pythons as well. I also wouldn't mind hybrids if you could always tell which ones are hybrids and which ones aren't. Unfortunatly it's not always possible to do this on looks alone.

Mark

I'm thinking about changing my name to 'somebody'