Omg!!!

o man im p-o'd
i sent him an e-mail 2 i couldnt help it

im so mad i just want to slap him/her :mad:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

still just for debate...Your 50+ baby ball pythons just hatched, and more are coming. 25 ate, and 25 didnt. This is part time, you've got to make it to the next show. Are you really going to take time with every non feeding baby to make sure it gets a meal in its belly. Or just tag him, and sell him off cheap?
I think the sensible thing would be to sell them cheaper. Or you could spend 1/2 hr [to an hour with] each individual snake. Either way, they gotta get sold. Does that make your an irresponsible breeder?

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yes it does.

being a breeder isn't just about putting two snakes together and hatching out some babies... and then selling them to the first person with a pocket full of cash.

being a breeder is more than that... and if you aren't up for the job... then you shouldn't do it. period.

we hand raise any babies our birds (cockatiels, parrotlets, budgies) hatch. we care about them. we get them fully weaned, feeding on seeds and fully feathered out before we sell them.

and we don't even consider ourselves breeders as it's simply a hobby for us.

when we begin to breed snakes, we'll take the same time and care with them... cause this is a life we are choosing to bring into the world. therefore, we need to take responsibility for that life!!!

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

Personally I understand where everyone is coming from...but in his defense not everyone has the funds...He probably just ended up having a ton of babies and not having the money to house them all separately hence why he is trying to sell them. True it would be nice if he had gotten his stuff together, but the reality of it is not everyone has the money...

And before anyone says don't breed unless you have the money to properly satisfy them...then maybe you should preach to the world about having human babies and not being able to afford them...

Sorry if it is a little blunt, but the real world with snake keeping isnt exactly how it's supposed to be... once upon a time.

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I'll say it pup....He shouldn't be breeding snakes unless he has the proper funds to care for the animals. Humans breeding is somewhat hard to stop...darn near impossible.
Snakes breeding in captivity is on a different level. Simply put, he doesn't have to house them together or pair them. If he cannot stop himself from putting two snakes together and breeding them, then he shouldn't have the animals. Someone who breeds, yet doesn't have the funds to properly house their hatchlings produced, nor parents, shouldn't really be calling themselves a breeder....

I hope that made some sense lol.

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Originally Posted by AndrewH

Someone who breeds, yet doesn't have the funds to properly house their hatchlings produced, nor parents, shouldn't

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... be breeding to begin with! period.

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

... be breeding to begin with! period.

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:rockon:

I have seen the same sort of thing on Houston Craigslist... I am assuming it is a breeder/flipper selling '07 CH babies and just slapping an "adoption fee" on them so that they can post on Craigslist.

I would like to know what the BIG breeders think on the subject.
debate
It's all and well for the hobbiests to say "we love them ALL, and we care for, and cherish every life we bring into the world!" But it almost sounds like, if you separate your emotions and dont look at snakes individually, then you shouldnt breed because all you see is cash. Which may not be.

Whats wrong with seeing the snakes as an awesome project? coming up with some KILLER morphs! See the market take a jump with the new double het or recessive morph that just hatched? Being one of the first people to have it? And have a great potential to make some good money?
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That's where I think these people quit seeing each snake as a "life to be cherished" and start seeing some major mula in the future. Which I still have to respect, as long as I don't have to see them on Animal Police [i think that's what its called]

In a way, every big breeder is actually a hobbyist. Of course they make money, which is a perk. But if they were to sell animals that are not eating, then it shows their true colors. You have to remember that these are live animals and they can't just have the bare minimum, you need to make them thrive, so you will have happy customers. Some snake breeders (not going to name them ;) ) just ran themselves out of business. They were too worried about making "moolah" and less worried about the snakes. They wanted to earn a million dollars in a day or whatever. Eventually, people started to hate them with a passion. They were worried about quanitity, not quality and look what happened to them. EVERY breeder has a special responsibility to keep their snakes happy and keep them in the best conditions they can create. Like I said before, if the snakes are not happy, your customers won't be happy either. Having an angry customer and a tarnished reputation is not something anyone wants to deal with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I would like to know what the BIG breeders think on the subject.
debate
It's all and well for the hobbiests to say "we love them ALL, and we care for, and cherish every life we bring into the world!" But it almost sounds like, if you separate your emotions and dont look at snakes individually, then you shouldnt breed because all you see is cash. Which may not be.

Whats wrong with seeing the snakes as an awesome project? coming up with some KILLER morphs! See the market take a jump with the new double het or recessive morph that just hatched? Being one of the first people to have it? And have a great potential to make some good money?
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That's where I think these people quit seeing each snake as a "life to be cherished" and start seeing some major mula in the future. Which I still have to respect, as long as I don't have to see them on Animal Police [i think that's what its called]

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i think you have it all wrong. all wrong.

the bigger breeders out there... who are successful... ARE successful because they DO consider each snake as a "life to be cherished" and they care for every snake in their collection and for sale the same... whether it's a high end morph or simply a normal... it doesn't matter to them...

try emailing kara or adam... and they'll both tell you the same! i guarantee it!!!

i've been searching for a pic of adam's set up... but i can't seem to find the pic. i know he posted it... anyone else remember which thread it was in? where he shows the racks and racks of snakes... each one to an enclosure?

and... if nothing else...

what does adam's banner say?

Quality

Passion

Service

I think that says it all.