I might get in trouble

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Originally Posted by darkangel

Halloween may be an old pagan holiday, but it's hardly that now. Come on, little kids getting dressed up and getting candy? I don't understand. With as many pagan influences as the are around us it seems such a pointless target.

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I'm not targeting it, I'm just saying it's not a christian holiday. I'm not about to dis halloween, it's a ton of fun!
You were saying how silly it is that people call it fall festival and I agree, because it doesn't have much religious significance unless you're pagan.

I work at a daycare and we call all the major holidays what they're normally referred to here in Canada. Easter, Christmas, etc. But we also send out a newsletter saying "we are calling the holiday this just so it's easier and because that's what it will be called as these kids grow up in Canada. This doesn't mean we aren't going to talk about the different ways people celebrate!" So the kids know that people celebrate different ways.

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Originally Posted by minotaur

Imagine what would happen if we didnt have a separation of church and state!

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I agree here because lets face it if we aloud a total influx of religion in the schools and government then every religion would have to be recognized from Christian to satanist. I had rather our government not let any religion within the government institutions abound than to let all. You might not be Christian but that doesn't mean you want a satanist reading prayers in your kids schools in the morning.

The original reason for the separation of church and state was not so that religion could be practiced freely but rather so that the government could not force its people to worship in the way that the government saw fit. In a sense making sure that there would not a "State Church". Like was so common in England in the 10 -16 century when the country was run by the Catholic church and protestants were hunted and killed for their beliefs and is still put in to play in communist nations. However our country was founded mainly by Christian men who like all men were not perfect (slave owners) but as Christian didn't claim to be perfect. It is a part of our history when you start removing one nation under God from the pledge and in God we trust from our money. Which on a side note I'd be willing to bet a years paychecks that most people my age and younger and maybe even a generation or two older can't recite the Pledge of Allegiance or sing the National Anthem.

If this is to be the way of it then Christmas becomes just another day. Children stay in school and no one gets off of work for it. You totally do away with Santa Clause a diluted figure derived from the Christian and more to the point Catholic created figure of Saint Nicholas no more decorations at that time of year or Easter any where in public. Thanksgiving is no more because after all a holiday derived from a group of Christian people(Quakers) giving thanks to God for the native Americans and seeing them through another year is totally out. Because after all any holiday ever how diluted base on a certain religion should not be aloud. We will no longer allow the Salvation Army to solicit in public. Telemarketers can now call on Sunday. Churches now have to pay taxes just like every other business, oh wait wouldn't that mean that the government was being (ever how small the amount) funded by a religious establishment.

After all Amendment ZZ to the US constitution states, We the People affirm that the United States of America exists as One Nation Under God."

People don't have to except Christianity on any level but to start removing our history eats away at the very history of our people.

If you want to say Happy Holidays that fine with me I'll say Merry Christmas. But leave our history intact whether you agree with it or not. It is after all history and we work everyday to build a nation that can be a safe haven for all man kind not just a few. Are we there yet??? It has take us 230 years, 9 months, 5 days to get where we are today and we have a long road ahead.

Just because a holiday had to do with a religious celebration originally doesn't mean it still needs to be all about it. After all, Christmas is one of the most secular holidays now.
There's a lot of debate about how many of the 'founding fathers' were christian too. It's been mentioned earlier.
I personally think churchs SHOULD be taxed. Why should they be allowed to take in and use money but contribute nothing to the tax base? To say that it would mean the government would be funded by religions is a bit silly. They get taxes from all of us. That doesn't mean they are funded by satanists.. or by seculists. It means everyone contributes. Churches shouldn't be exempt.
You cannot change history. No one proposes changing history(perhaps changing the texts to reflect the reality of it sometimes) .
Halloween is usually changed to "Fall Festival" terms BY Christian groups because it's NOT a christian holiday. Check out how many churchs have Fall Festival parties for the kids, instead of Halloween parties. So that's the backwards sign of Happy Holidays. The church fights AGAINST changing Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays, because they say it demeans the original purpose of the holiday. Yet THEY change Happy Halloween to Happy Fall Festivus, which demeans the original purpose of THAT holiday. But that's okay.. it's not THEIR religion.
Intolerance of others right to celebrate their own beliefs is what is wrong around here. People are VERY quick to yell about their rights being trampled, but have no issue with stepping on others rights. Taking the words "Under God" off a piece of money doesn't change history. It doesn't mean you have to stop being christian. It does however mean that non-God-worshippers don't have to use money with a religious tract printed on it. "In God We Trust" is okay on your coins.. but would you accept it if the Mint decided to put "Budda Loves you" on the quarter instead? How about "Satan Believes In You"? No? Why not? It's a religious statement.. just not the Christian one.
And Christianity is currantly the top numbers wise in the world, but Islam is catching up at a fast rate. If Islam is #1 will we change messages since they are #1? I prefer to stay non-religious myself.
I never object to what people say. I don't object to christian displays outside someone's home, or church, or business. I don't find it offensive that crosses adorn people's throat, nor do I object if a pagan symbol is hung up on my neighbor's window. I feel it's their house/car/building etc. I just don't like it when state run facilities start hosting the religious symbols too. The quiet five minutes in the morning at a public school is wonderful. That way if you wish to pray, you can. If you want to meditate, you do that. It's non-religious, but allows for any religion to be practiced quietly.
Wolfy

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Originally Posted by darkangel

Halloween may be an old pagan holiday, but it's hardly that now. Come on, little kids getting dressed up and getting candy? I don't understand. With as many pagan influences as the are around us it seems such a pointless target.

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Well, I don't think kids getting dressed up is TOO far off from the original holiday.

All Hallows Eve was (at least in Ireland, as we talked about it in a "Modern Ireland" course) a holiday where spirits of the dead were said to rome around. So, to confuse the spirits and make sure they didn't attempt to haunt/possess anyone, people carved out vegetables with faces and put candles in them and people wore masks... At least, that's what I remember to the best of my ability :) I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm remembering it right.

Anyway, I'd consider myself a non-denominational Christian... I'm really okay with whatever anyone says to me. Happy Christmahaunikwanzika, right? (Wasn't that in an Adam Sandler song?). I don't think it matters one way or the other...and it's silly that people get SO worked up over it.

Scholars are fairly sure that Christ was born in Springtime, anyway, and not at Christmas. But, in an attempt to convert pagans, the Catholic church decided to take a pagan holiday and turn it into a holiday celebrating their diety (Christ). The Christmas tree is also a pagan symbol. *shrugs*

And my parents are now here to take me out to an Easter Lunch...so I gotta go :) I was just really rambling, anyway. So--for everyone who celebrates today, for whatever reasons: Happy April the 8th ;)

I think everyone needs to just lighten up in this country or world for that matter.
They take away the Easter bunny, they take away Christmas holidays in schools, work etc as to not offend people. Well it offends me, am I not people?
We are teaching our kids to grow up and be little middle of the road milk toast not willing to stand up and do or say what they feel or believe for fear of offending someone. Heck most days I find tons of people who offend me in just the way they dress and come out in public, but I am not trying to change the laws reguarding dress. I just get over it.

As for our founding fathers I do think the ones who wrote the pledge and the rest of the mumbo jumbo where in fact christians reguadless of what other religions may or may not have been in this country. The word God has been in it and on our money for a few hundred years and hasn't been an issue. If you feel uncomfortable w/ saying one nation under God then don't say the darn thing, I am ok with that as you have the right not to stand and pledge.
But don't tell me I can't or that I have to remove the word.

I guess I am saying that whole " oh that offends me " coin has two sides. Who are you or I to decide which is right or which is wrong?

As I always say " can't we all just get along "

My thought was Happy Holidays included New Years Too! I don't know why people get so upset. I find many people give more energy to what is against their religion then what is similar, in other words the prefer to add to the negative differences(in their opinion) and not the positve similarities. Just as there are many rivers leading to the ocean, There are many paths to God. Unfortunately religion leads to self rightiuosness. I'm right and your wrong(or going to hell). Or I'm better than you. I enjoy studiing all religions. They are all amazing and they all have the same message when you open your mind and stop being self rightious. :)

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Originally Posted by jotay

I
As for our founding fathers I do think the ones who wrote the pledge and the rest of the mumbo jumbo where in fact christians reguadless of what other religions may or may not have been in this country. The word God has been in it and on our money for a few hundred years and hasn't been an issue. If you feel uncomfortable w/ saying one nation under God then don't say the darn thing, I am ok with that as you have the right not to stand and pledge.
But don't tell me I can't or that I have to remove the word.

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Actually, the founders had nothing to do with writing the pledge. Francis Bellamy wrote it in 1892, and "under God" was not even part of it. That wasn't added until 1954, by Congress. And it was added as a way to impart hatred and intolerance of Communists and atheists due to the Red Scare.
Furthermore, "In God We Trust" wasn't added to coins until 1864.

No one is telling you that you can't say "under God", just know the actual history behind what you are saying.

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Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

My thought was Happy Holidays included New Years Too!

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Agreed to that point. Add in Thanksgiving too!

I am a baptist christain.

I respect other religions, and the people who practice them! I have friends who arn't christians, and I love them the same as I do my christian friends. Some people blow this out of proportion! I wish I could put what I am thinking into words...

Sarah is right, the founding fathers wern't all christians.

At my job, we can get written up for saying anything that pertains to religion over the phones. We talk to a myriad of different kinds of people, and I know of one woman who loudly proclaims that she WILL say Merry Christmas, etc, and does not care if she gets written up, but nothing ever happens to her.. she is a really nice person, active in charity (she even gave half of her 3,000.00 bonus check to a woman who has cancer and no income.) But her religious conviction borders on fanaticism to me. I don't bring up or wish any debtors a happy anything on the phone, aside from something like "have a good weekend." If they say merry Anything, I would just reply with "you too." People who get mad about someone only wishing them happy holidays, are nuts in my book..

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Originally Posted by stangs13

I respect other religions, and the people who practice them! I have friends who arn't christians, and I love them the same as I do my christian friends. Some people blow this out of proportion! I wish I could put what I am thinking into words...

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I seriously wish that more people thought like you in that statement! The world would be a much less hostile, war-filled place.