Super Spider and other stuff....

I have several super spiders.. Here is a pic of one of them.. You should see him wearing his cape:)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...tcage/cy01.jpg

ROFLMAO!!! thats too funny!

LMAO good one matt :P

Sometimes you just need a tension break..lol

Most definately!

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

If my agenda is so clear how do you keep missing it?

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I'm not missing a thing Randy ... you're jealousy is very obvious at this point.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

It's the people that are risking tens of thousands of dollars that need the information more than I do.

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And these people got together and elected you thier public spokes person? How do you know that these people need the information? If they have spent so much and are being lied to or misled as you so boldly suggest, where are their posts? Where are the threads on the BOI? So you're just asking on their behalf? How come you're the only person that brings it up? And finally, if you don't own a spider and don't plan on investing in one any time soon, what's the big rush for the information?

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

And like you Adam I'm not sure I would want to have to sell a lot of spiders.

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To the contrary Randy ... I do want to sell spiders! The only problem is I will probably keep most of what I produce for my own breeding projects. You see, I LOVE the spider mutation and believe the you can NEVER have enough spiders in your collection ... males and females ... to date, they make the BEST combination morphs and are an amazing mutation all on their own. We'll see what I do with my 8 or 9 spider clutches this year ... I'm sure some will be for sale ... but the majority will be ALL MINE! :D

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

At least I avoided (until now) adding in caramel and woma/pearl, which I believe are also applicable to the current discussion.

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You just can't help yourself can you? :P

-adam

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Originally Posted by buckdawg

Public discourse is the very foundation this great country was founded upon.

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I totally agree and in time ALL of the information about ALL of the ball python projects in existence will come out. There's not a ball python breeder in the world that isn't at least a little ego driven and they all sooner or later LOVE to share their secrets.

But remember, public disclosure of government activities is totally different than public disclosure of a business’s intellectual property. Does Coca Cole reveal their hidden formula? Does Microsoft put the code for windows up on public domain? Does Merck release the chemical make up of vaccines they create? While some companies do make their intellectual property public, others do not … and agree or disagree with the practice, I feel that you must respect the businesses right do make the choice either way. If you don’t like it, don’t patronize their business … that is your choice.

The thing that I have a problem with is the expectation that partial information or incomplete research should be released. It takes a lot of time to come up with the answers to all of the questions that people have and will have and no one wants to release half a$$ed partial data and not know what to say when people start asking questions where the only possible answer is "I don't know yet". The other thing that I have a problem with is the fact that Randy has somehow decided for the entire ball python world what the correct timeframe for the release of information is and accuses anyone that doesn't conform to his ideals of "hiding something" or worse.

The bottom line is SPIDERS ROCK! ... If you don't like them or feel that there is not enough information out there about what's going on with them, no one is making you buy one! ... There's no need to make up rumors or fantasize evil conspiracy theories about someone elses hard work ... in the end, all it does is hurt the project. Now you have to ask yourself ... why would someone want to hurt a ball python project? Jealousy maybe? .... I don't know for sure, but I do know that I LOVE ball pythons and it really boils my blood to see someone trying to hurt the hobby like that.

-adam

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And finally, if you don't own a spider and don't plan on investing in one any time soon, what's the big rush for the information?

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If I knew more about them I might be more inclined to join the many breeders starting spider projects every year. Even though the spinning thing doesn't sound that serious the fact that it was kept from the public for so long has me a little gun shy on spiders.

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Does Coca Cole reveal their hidden formula? Does Microsoft put the code for windows up on public domain? Does Merck release the chemical make up of vaccines they create?

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But they aren't selling the public little factories to make more of their product. Perhaps a better analogy would be their relationship with stockholders (stake holders in production of the company product). There are certain information sharing requirements for publicly traded companies and they are taken very seriously.

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The thing that I have a problem with is the expectation that partial information or incomplete research should be released. It takes a lot of time to come up with the answers to all of the questions that people have and will have and no one wants to release half a$$ed partial data and not know what to say when people start asking questions where the only possible answer is "I don't know yet".

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The nature of snake breeding is such that it isn't practical to retain sole ownership of a project until it is fully explored and understood. In fact I think it's great that the originators are willing to share in their new projects and I agree that they should be handsomely rewarded for early sharing with their future competitors. However, once the decision is made to put a new morph into the public marketplace I think there is a responsibility to share information on possible problems. Sure it's a tricky situation when you consider the possible impact to those who have already bought into the project but waiting just passes the inevitable burden on to more and more smaller breeders. I think it's perfectly acceptable to say that you don't know yet but here is what you have seen so far and here is what you think is going on. I believe the buying public can be trusted to weigh the information for themselves and who knows, the public discussion might even result in an overlooked solution.

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Now you have to ask yourself ... why would someone want to hurt a ball python project? Jealousy maybe? .... I don't know for sure, but I do know that I LOVE ball pythons and it really boils my blood to see someone trying to hurt the hobby like that.

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Nobody created any of the individual mutations so if some of them have a few problems no one is to blame. The only thing breeders can be held accountable for is what they do with the information as it's discovered. If the hobby or a mutation has no problems it can't be hurt. If there are problems, ignoring them will not make them go away, it will only pass the hurt down. I don't expect all mutations to be perfect and could easily love an imperfect one. But it would be nice not to come into it already blinded by devotion to the myth of a hobby where prices could stay high for ever and where we can trust the patriarchs to look out for everyone's best interest and decide for us what we need to know and when.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

If I knew more about them I might be more inclined to join the many breeders starting spider projects every year.

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But you don't and obviously you're too scared to call Kevin up and ask him, so what ... you're going to make up lies about super spiders laying on their backs and lethal alleles until the price comes down to the same price as the possible hets that you buy?

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

There are certain information sharing requirements for publicly traded companies and they are taken very seriously.

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So you're electing yourself chairman of a new body governing the oversight of the ball python industry? ... Will you wear a cape? :P

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

However, once the decision is made to put a new morph into the public marketplace I think there is a responsibility to share information on possible problems.

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I agree, but with one exception. I don't feel that anyone has any responsibility to share any information with window shoppers. Information IS shared with the people supporting the industry by putting money into it. Those people are the gears that keep this machine going and it's those people that are owed information and explanations. The people that are sitting on the side lines throwing stones and whining about morph prices being too high aren't owed anything in my opinion. If you want to run with the big dogs put your money where your mouth is ... otherwise, wait it out and by the time you can afford the morphs all of the information will be figured out.

I have never bought a single morph without being informed about all of the possible issues, both real and imagined, with the animal and it's offspring. If you buy from a reputable breeder with a great reputation you'll get the skinny ... heck, even if you don't buy, most of the time if you just call them up and get them talking they'll tell you what you want to know ... but if you're waiting for the big guys to address the masses on a public forum it's just not going to happen ... at least I hope that it never does ... because in the end, all that will do is give the window shoppers and the bottom feeders more ammo to try and pick apart the hobby that I love over something as petty as jealousy.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Ball pythons are big business not academia. Breeding projects are done to produce snakes to sell and make money, not for peer review. It's pretty easy to sit back on the porch and throw stones while the people that are risking tens of thousands of dollars and actually doing the work give you something to occupy your time with...

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This is the very reason I want to kick commie college professors in the head as often as I can. Indeed, they exemplify pompous @$$es experiencing cranuim-gluteous inversion.