Help for a newbie - Python On Cold Side!

Perhaps this will help explain whats going on;
I am no longer using the night bulb lamp at all. It has been disconnected and is no longer in use.
The day lamp is plugged in, but is kept off at all times unless the tank requires a bit of a heat bump or I need to see inside the tank (the room the tank is kept in is not illuminated very well)
I was told that the CHE being over the top of a hide would turn it into an "oven" and that I should not position it so. A 20 long, while reasonable, isn't really THAT big so I am forced to place the CHE in the middle.
I probed the hot side hide and got a reading of 100.5 degrees. Too hot. I suspect the CHE being on the hot side had something to do with that, but I also dialed back the dimmer on the UTH very SLIGHTLY just in case.
I plan to probe both hides again this afternoon and this evening to stay on top of the changes I am making.

I also covered both sides, the back, and the top with DOUBLE LAYERS of aluminum foil secured with black electric tape (I have NEVER used tape INSIDE the enclosure ;) )
After I finished that, I added cut planks of pressed and painted wood to the OUTSIDE of the aluminum foil on the tank's back and both sides for additional insulation (I did NOT use cardboard).
I then misted down the whole tank with warm water, topped off the water dish, secured everything, and snapped the following pictures.

Please let me know if you have any thoughts or suggestions.
I'm desperately trying to get this right! :P

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/...szqxni1yq.jpeg

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/...sdostkgsq.jpeg

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/...sgaj9pg4n.jpeg

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/...sxmxagb1t.jpeg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SandmansDreams

Perhaps this will help explain whats going on;
I am no longer using the night bulb lamp at all. It has been disconnected and is no longer in use.
The day lamp is plugged in, but is kept off at all times unless the tank requires a bit of a heat bump or I need to see inside the tank (the room the tank is kept in is not illuminated very well)
I was told that the CHE being over the top of a hide would turn it into an "oven" and that I should not position it so. A 20 long, while reasonable, isn't really THAT big so I am forced to place the CHE in the middle.
I probed the hot side hide and got a reading of 100.5 degrees. Too hot. I suspect the CHE being on the hot side had something to do with that, but I also dialed back the dimmer on the UTH very SLIGHTLY just in case.
I plan to probe both hides again this afternoon and this evening to stay on top of the changes I am making.

I also covered both sides, the back, and the top with DOUBLE LAYERS of aluminum foil secured with black electric tape (I have NEVER used tape INSIDE the enclosure ;) )
After I finished that, I added cut planks of pressed and painted wood to the OUTSIDE of the aluminum foil on the tank's back and both sides for additional insulation (I did NOT use cardboard).
I then misted down the whole tank with warm water, topped off the water dish, secured everything, and snapped the following pictures.

Please let me know if you have any thoughts or suggestions.
I'm desperately trying to get this right! :P

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...szqxni1yq.jpeg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...sdostkgsq.jpeg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...sgaj9pg4n.jpeg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...sxmxagb1t.jpeg

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Yes that was me that said to move the CHE from above the Hot Hide...only 1 source with a UTH for basking. My names Chris :)
.. Excellent job.. Good idea with the insulation. It looks like all you need to do is dial in the dimmer now for the Hot hide.. And yes your right the Hot side probe got up to 100 because of that CHE.
Also remember when your dialing this in do so when you havent removed the lid for several hours.. You'll have a heck of a time with that dimmer unless you only adjusted one thing at a time.. If your moving the CHE around, turing Off & On the light ect ...that will all effect that hot hide probe that we need to get the UTH regulated with. So dont correct 2 things at once or you'll never know what should be raised or lowered.
Remember a couple degrees at night is nothig to worry about, thats natural. So when your ambiant goes down at night (when house does) your UTH may go down to 87/88. Thats fine.
Sorry if I rambled, ive said so much i dont know what I said or didnt say yet haha

The names Anthony. BP's name is "Suriyothai".
The breeder who sold me my python last week was named Chris. Interesting coincidence :P

Thanks for the compliments on the tank. I'm keeping careful watch on the temps throughout the day today. I will be very careful to only change 1 thing at a time. This whole setup is a lot more fickle than I anticipated it being, but thats fine. Once I get it all under control I'm sure it'll become a lot easier to maintain and in the end its worth it to keep such an amazing pet!

Now that everything seems good I'm going leave it all as is and probe both hides later tonight (lid will have been closed about 8 hours). I'll update with my readings at that time. Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SandmansDreams

This whole setup is a lot more fickle than I anticipated it being, but thats fine. Once I get it all under control I'm sure it'll become a lot easier to maintain and in the end its worth it to keep such an amazing pet!

Now that everything seems good I'm going leave it all as is and probe both hides later tonight (lid will have been closed about 8 hours). I'll update with my readings at that time. Thanks!

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you've done a terrific job getting that tank up and running. and yes, once it's 100% it won't need much to maintain it. yay!!! :D

Hmm...its been 6 hours with the lid tight and night is now falling. The temps are dropping slightly as was predicted.

Current readings;
HOT - 84 degrees. 45% humidity
COLD - 84 degrees. 51% humidity

These are ambient air temps only and do NOT include the hide temps.
The humidity now seems to be doing MUCH better and typically has ridden between 45 and 55 degrees ever since I better insulated everything. It took that hot side 6-8 hrs to fall to below 50%, which is a huge improvement, but the tank will probably still require 1x or 2x daily misting to maintain proper levels, which is no big deal.

What does concern me is that there doesn't seem to be a temperature gradient throughout the tank. Is this important? Or should I ignore it?
I assume since I moved the CHE to the middle it has more evenly and effectively distributed the temps as you can see in the reading I just mentioned.

I need to make a quick run, but when I get back I'll get some hide temps probed and we'll see how things stand with those...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SandmansDreams

Hmm...its been 6 hours with the lid tight and night is now falling. The temps are dropping slightly as was predicted.

Current readings;
HOT - 84 degrees. 45% humidity
COLD - 84 degrees. 51% humidity

These are ambient air temps only and do NOT include the hide temps.
The humidity now seems to be doing MUCH better and typically has ridden between 45 and 55 degrees ever since I better insulated everything. It took that hot side 6-8 hrs to fall to below 50%, which is a huge improvement, but the tank will probably still require 1x or 2x daily misting to maintain proper levels, which is no big deal.

What does concern me is that there doesn't seem to be a temperature gradient throughout the tank. Is this important? Or should I ignore it?
I assume since I moved the CHE to the middle it has more evenly and effectively distributed the temps as you can see in the reading I just mentioned.

I need to make a quick run, but when I get back I'll get some hide temps probed and we'll see how things stand with those...

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Your kind of misunderstanding what this set up does.. You donhave a gradiant but not ambiant.. Your UTH should be 88-91 and your cool side (CHE) 76-81... Thats your Cool/Hot gradiant in this case...
If you decide to run a larger enclosure at some point, 48"x15"x12" (40G long) or a T8 PVC you can use one heat source, a RHP with a Herpstat portional tstat. That will be a Hot side of 90 and the other side (no heat source) will be around 76-80... Your not going to get that in a small tank using a CHE for ambiant and uth for basking spot .. your cool side is a bit to warm and thats why I was saying a 60 watt is ok for smaller tanks. I cant remember do you have a Jumpstart Tstat or what is controling the CHE? It needs to be turned down a bit..

Yeah, I went back over the "with pictures" instructions again to double check things and saw my error; the UTH is measured as being "Hot-side" and the ambient temps as measured on the "Cold side" are maintained by the CHE.
I got it now. I was indeed mistaken. I do not currently have the CHE on a thermostat, but it is on a timer (11:00pm cut off...4:00am kick on). I plan to head in and pick up another dimmer tomorrow for it.
Thereafter I will remove the timer, add the dimmer, and adjust until precise temps are reached.
That should complete the setup once and for all aside from some very minor tweeks here and there.
I anticipate using the timer elsewhere or in the future on a bigger tank.
Meanwhile, I'm letting the timer its plugged into now cycle it off and back on so as to drop those too-high temps a little. I think it should be ok overnight, especially with all the new insulation I added.

He will be ok anyways as some Pythons/Boa's are on UTH alone... If they need heat they will stay on the UTH, if they want to cool they get off for a bit... Keepers have done that for decades. Thats what most rack systems are.
Its not recomended to run 2 dimmers as when they fail they fail wide open, however so do Cheap Tstats so when you have the money to spend get a $195 Herpstat 2 (control 2 heat sources) and doesnt fail Wide Open.. As a matter of fact dont hear of failures period. I hear about several still running 10 years later.....

Great success!!
BP actually used one of her hides on her own for the first time since I got her! :D
She's been in it all day actually. Pokes her head out every once in a while if I'm in the room doing stuff but is generally totally unseen.

Tomorrow my temp gun should be delivered and I'll finally be able to get pinpoint readings on everything!
I also plan to get a thermostat for the UTH (moving the dimmer it is currently plugged into over to the CHE).
If the dimmer on the CHE fails, and it fails wide open as you said, the hottest the tank has gotten on the CHE with no dimmer at all has been 84 so it should be fine (short term) even if that happens.

Even though everything isn't 100% yet, I'm now 95% there and I think I should be able to get it all squared away from here before this coming weekend is out.

Also, I know I've very likely stressed her out these past several days by screwing with the enclosure so much, but she hasn't eaten in 12 days so I'm going to try to feed her tonight (1st attempt at feeding). Here goes! :D

good luck!!!