Re: Ranco etc burned out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
westom
When does a dimmer switch using triacs create highest heat? When at the half dimmed position. How much heat? Depends on how it is designed. Semiconductors are routinely used to switch power - even hundreds of thousands of volt transmission lines. AC is converted to DC from Washington to California, all lines incoming to Quebec, and the connection from NJ to Long Island. Then more semiconductors convert that DC back to AC - without excessive heat. But again, semiconductors are problematic when one does not implement additional design concepts. Hundreds of megawatts controlled and delivered by semiconductors that do not overheat.
When does a computer's power supply (that is constantly switching) create greatest heat? Typically when operating at half power. Heating is minimized at full power - when semiconductors are selected and properly designed to perform switching.
Denials only exist because you could not make semiconductors and snubber circuits work. Others have used those well proven solutions successfully. Which one is best for the OP? He must first provide necessary information. Otherwise only solutions based in speculation (ie a protector) will exist.
I don't think you understand. "When does a dimmer switch using triacs create highest heat? When at the half dimmed position." This is not true. In a half dimmed position on a solid state dimmer is is only passing current half the time and therefore generating half the heat. During the ac cycle the voltage goes from 0 to 120V and back to zero in a half cycle. Triac based control waits for zero crossing and then delays and then triggers in that half cycle and stays on until back to zero volts. The longer the delay the less power. If you wait half the cycle then you are not passing any current and not sinking any current during that half phase therefor not generating any heat.
"semiconductors are problematic when one does not implement additional design concepts" This is true.
"When does a computer's power supply (that is constantly switching) create greatest heat? Typically when operating at half power." This is wildly false. They do have better efficiency at certain loadings (usually more than half loaded) but they definitely do not create more heat at half power. This is also why many switching power supplies do not turn on the fan until load goes up. You are confusing linear power supplies with switching power supplies.
"Denials only exist because you could not make semiconductors and snubber circuits work." I certainly have proven to make semiconductors work just fine with 10+ years of building and designing thermostats which have snubbers built in. I also had snubbers working in my relay experiments but in order to see much improvement it required a large cap and due to size restrictions was not the best option. There is a difference between successful and not practical for a circuit.
And with that I have thermostats to build. :)
Re: Ranco etc burned out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spyderrobotics
Use a surge protector. There is still a transformer inside that it would protect and you have the added benefit that most have a built in 15 breaker so you get short circuit protection.
Will this one do the job? Its the highest quality one i can find. I just dont want a repeat of what happened with the ranco cause if i didnt catch it sooner it wouldve been a big problem for my animals, so i want the best of the best protection!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00005...520&th=1&psc=1
Re: Ranco etc burned out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
highqualityballz
Will this one do the job? Its the highest quality one i can find. I just dont want a repeat of what happened with the ranco cause if i didnt catch it sooner it wouldve been a big problem for my animals, so i want the best of the best protection!
Tripplite does nothing for what would have caused a previous failure. Protectors are for a transient that can occur maybe once every seven years. It would be incoming to all appliances. If a thermostat needs one, then protection is essential for a dishwasher, bathroom GFCIs, all clocks, LED bulbs, TV, central air conditioner, computer, refrigerator, recharging phone, and (the most critical appliance when a surge exists) all smoke detectors.
Your failure is typical of a most common reason for electronics failure - manufacturing defects. Internal inspection could say more. Others noted this manufacturer's high failure rate. Same would explain your failure. Identifying a failed part would say why failure happened. Most electronics failures are due to manufacturing defects - not surges.
Install one 'whole house' protector for about $1 per protected appliance - so that everything (including a 'tiny joules' Tripplite and a thermostat) is protected from a transient that can occur once every seven years. Then thousands of joules do not even create a protector fire. Then a potentially destructive transient does not overwhelm superior protection already inside every appliance (including a thermostat). Even a Tripplite needs that protection.
Re: Ranco etc burned out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
highqualityballz
Will this one do the job? Its the highest quality one i can find. I just dont want a repeat of what happened with the ranco cause if i didnt catch it sooner it wouldve been a big problem for my animals, so i want the best of the best protection!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00005...520&th=1&psc=1
I do agree with westom that this would not solve what happened to your Ranco. I am not convinced it was a manufacturing defect. I would have to see the circuit board to see exactly how it failed.
From the manual I linked to in the previous post (assuming that your ranco is one of the models listed in it) they rate the unit at 9.8 amps resistive which is 1176 watts. So technically running a 1500 watt oil filled heater on high is well beyond what the manufacturer rated it for. Also over time relay contacts build up carbon and generate resistance which causes heat. If the ranco had been in service for some time and also the heater was always on high then this very well could have been typical expected failure under those circumstances.
To be in compliance with their ratings you would run the oil filled heater on medium. I just put ours on a meter and it draws about 880 watts peak on medium. If the room is still too cool and the thermostat doesn't make temp then try adding a second oil filled heater plugged directly into a different wall outlet set to low power. It should help boost the heat while the thermostat control does the final regulation. If the room temps warm in the summer then turn off the second supplemental heater and see if the thermostat controlled one can do it on its own. By running the heater on medium the relay in the replacement thermostat will last much longer. :)
Re: Ranco etc burned out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spyderrobotics
I do agree with westom that this would not solve what happened to your Ranco. I am not convinced it was a manufacturing defect. I would have to see the circuit board to see exactly how it failed.
From the manual I linked to in the previous post (assuming that your ranco is one of the models listed in it) they rate the unit at 9.8 amps resistive which is 1176 watts. So technically running a 1500 watt oil filled heater on high is well beyond what the manufacturer rated it for. Also over time relay contacts build up carbon and generate resistance which causes heat. If the ranco had been in service for some time and also the heater was always on high then this very well could have been typical expected failure under those circumstances.
To be in compliance with their ratings you would run the oil filled heater on medium. I just put ours on a meter and it draws about 880 watts peak on medium. If the room is still too cool and the thermostat doesn't make temp then try adding a second oil filled heater plugged directly into a different wall outlet set to low power. It should help boost the heat while the thermostat control does the final regulation. If the room temps warm in the summer then turn off the second supplemental heater and see if the thermostat controlled one can do it on its own. By running the heater on medium the relay in the replacement thermostat will last much longer. :)
So you think i shoild purchase another ranco and keep the oil filled heater on medium or purchase your power module?
Re: Ranco etc burned out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
highqualityballz
So you think i shoild purchase another ranco and keep the oil filled heater on medium or purchase your power module?
Ideally I would point you to the thermsotat product I have coming out but it will be a couple of months before all the parts come in for that model. It has a second relay as a backup and tech built in which extends relay life. :)
At the moment and for your needs I would say you could go with another ranco but to be honest there is alot of reports of failures with them out there. People use them in brewing beer and other uses so there is a wide variety of people using them. In my research I have not seen as many people having problems with the Johnson Controls A419 units. We actually got one in for eval months ago and the build quality was good. You can get them prewired for about the same price as the Ranco. If I recall the only setup necessary was one jumper that had to be moved. It was a simple process and the vendor may do it for you. If it were me I would give a Johnson Controls unit a shot and use the heater on medium.
I think this would fit your situation better than the power module route.
Here is an example of those units:
http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Contro...=sr_1_2&sr=8-2
Maybe search around here on BP and see what experience others have had with the Johnson units. One other thing. I don't think the rancos come prewired from the factory. I believe its just the industrial unit and someone is wiring them outside the factory. The Johnsons are available in a prewired from the factory versions such as the one in the link. That can be important because you never know who is wiring those rancos and the quality of their work. Loose, frayed wires can lead to failures.
If you plan on tossing your ranco I would be happy to take a look at it and get an idea how it failed. I would cover your shipping and let you know my thoughts once I open it up. If your interested in that you can contact me direct at the sales@spyderrobotics.com email address. :)
Re: Ranco etc burned out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spyderrobotics
Ideally I would point you to the thermsotat product I have coming out but it will be a couple of months before all the parts come in for that model. It has a second relay as a backup and tech built in which extends relay life. :)
At the moment and for your needs I would say you could go with another ranco but to be honest there is alot of reports of failures with them out there. People use them in brewing beer and other uses so there is a wide variety of people using them. In my research I have not seen as many people having problems with the Johnson Controls A419 units. We actually got one in for eval months ago and the build quality was good. You can get them prewired for about the same price as the Ranco. If I recall the only setup necessary was one jumper that had to be moved. It was a simple process and the vendor may do it for you. If it were me I would give a Johnson Controls unit a shot and use the heater on medium.
I think this would fit your situation better than the power module route.
Here is an example of those units:
http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Contro...=sr_1_2&sr=8-2
Maybe search around here on BP and see what experience others have had with the Johnson units. One other thing. I don't think the rancos come prewired from the factory. I believe its just the industrial unit and someone is wiring them outside the factory. The Johnsons are available in a prewired from the factory versions such as the one in the link. That can be important because you never know who is wiring those rancos and the quality of their work. Loose, frayed wires can lead to failures.
If you plan on tossing your ranco I would be happy to take a look at it and get an idea how it failed. I would cover your shipping and let you know my thoughts once I open it up. If your interested in that you can contact me direct at the
sales@spyderrobotics.com email address. :)
Ok thanks. I emailed you.
Re: Ranco etc burned out?
I dont know how you are using your oil filled heaters... But it sounds as if you are plugging them into surge protector or power strips.. You may want to read the manual for oil heater... Mine says to plug oil heater directly into a wall outlet, not to use extension cords, power strips or surge protectors to avoid a fire hazzard.
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Re: Ranco etc burned out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
highqualityballz
Ok thanks. I emailed you.
Best part of doing an autospy is to start by smashing it open with a hammer.
Re: Ranco etc burned out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jeanne
I dont know how you are using your oil filled heaters... But it sounds as if you are plugging them into surge protector or power strips.. You may want to read the manual for oil heater... Mine says to plug oil heater directly into a wall outlet, not to use extension cords, power strips or surge protectors to avoid a fire hazard.
You can use a heavy duty extension cord but most people wouldn't spend the extra cash on one. :rofl::rofl:
