Parents think snakes are evil (I want a bp?)

First of all, the kid got permission to get a BP next year with their parents' support...

Many people do not recommend BPs as beginner snakes. These recommendations were given to someone who we didn't know at the time would have help/support both financially and in husbandry from their parents. I'm glad you could raise chameleons, snapping turtles, and finicky frogs at the age of 13, because most children that age would not be able to meet the husbandry requirements with no financial help or help getting the husbandry correct.
Also betting you didn't pay for everything yourself; or you were the world's richest 13 year old.

I started with garters at the age of 12 and never had any trouble with them. Yes they can be a little flighty, but they are a lot more forgiving of husbandry issues than a BP.

IMO research is not a substitute for experience. Starting with a tropical species that has to have very specific temp ranges/hot spots/humidity requirements is very different than starting with a temperate species that barely even requires supplemental heat. Someone who isn't used to constantly checking on these parameters could easily get overwhelmed with it or make mistakes, especially a child. Saying that tropical species are not ideal beginner pets is a far cry from logic that would "deem everyone irresponsible".

I'll tell you a secret. I use to catch garters, play with them, release when I saw them. Never bitten. All calm. BUT, I really wanted a ball python and used biased info for an argument against garters. Maybe not truthful, but creating arguments and bias happens a lot in life. I honestly think any snake makes a good pet, for whoever you are. You grew up with garters, you think they're the best beginner. Another grew up with corns got bit by a ball, they love corns think balls have bad tempers. Someone had the sweetest retic and worst milk snake. I will, inevitably, one day claim balls are the best beginners -- but this cannot be truthful, because I only begun and can begin with ONE. Therefore, I will think they're the best beginner; because I never will have begun with a corn / retic / burm / milk / king / rat / tree / water / garter snake.

I actually don't think garters are the best beginner. If I had to do it over again and make a more educated choice (my first snake literally escaped in the pet store and was given to me for free when I caught him; still have him too!) I would have chosen a corn or kingsnake because garters' dietary requirements are more complex than most other temperate species. I think they certainly can be a beginner. Probably wouldn't recommend them for very young children since they can be a little nippy and easily dropped/hurt especially when young.

I think BPs certainly CAN be a starter snake, but only if someone is well aware of all the potential issues and problems that come from husbandry that is a little more advanced as well as the long lifespan-- which you definitely seem to be. A lot of times people who are more experienced keeping animals will almost sound like they are trying to talk new owners out of buying a certain species as a pet. This isn't really the case; we just want to be sure someone is still interested in the animal even after knowing all the potential negatives and just how much effort goes into keeping them.

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

I'm glad you could raise chameleons, snapping turtles, and finicky frogs at the age of 13, because most children that age would not be able to meet the husbandry requirements with no financial help or help getting the husbandry correct.
Also betting you didn't pay for everything yourself; or you were the world's richest 13 year old.

IMO research is not a substitute for experience. Starting with a tropical species that has to have very specific temp ranges/hot spots/humidity requirements is very different than starting with a temperate species that barely even requires supplemental heat. Someone who isn't used to constantly checking on these parameters could easily get overwhelmed with it or make mistakes, especially a child. Saying that tropical species are not ideal beginner pets is a far cry from logic that would "deem everyone irresponsible".

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I think you are being too harsh. The OP sounds like they are very intelligent for their age and very knowledgeable on ball pythons from so much research. I bet half of the new members on here that are double the OP's age couldn't even write a single page report on the ball pythons care, never mind an 11 page report. To gain complete experience for keeping a BP is not going to come from a garter or corn snake since they have completly different requirements IMO. I've kept kings/corns when younger and I found them more troubling with constantly trying to escape and being so quick when handling. With research on this fourm I've LEARNED to properly keep a ball python and mine eats every 5 days and sheds/defecates perfect. Knowledge goes a long way despite age. I've seen grown adults still clueless on these snakes care after countless members try helping them. And not everyone goes away to college, a large percentage commute. I'd rather have my kids get a snake that feeds once a week and to just check on daily parameters than have a mammal that needs constant attention and care multiple times a day. There are far worse pets to start with. Again, knowledge is key. They seem very knowledgeable in the subject and can learn more here. Goodluck!

...I was responding to the poster directly above that response that was talking about getting snapping turtles at age 13, not the OP.
I've said multiple times that I think the OP has done their research and, while I wouldn't recommend a BP as a first snake, that it certainly can be done. Did you even read my most recent post?

My reasons for recommending another snake prior to a BP (which MANY people did on this thread, so I'm not sure why my post was singled out) in an ideal situation is that someone who is completely unused to checking temps/humidity/ect. has a lot more leeway with temperate species until they get their husbandry correct, the lifespan is shorter for someone who doesn't actually know whether or not they'll really enjoy keeping snakes, and the setup is cheaper for someone who may have limited funds.
Does this mean no one can get it right with a BP their first time around? No. It's just my opinion that a BP isn't THE ideal beginner snake.

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

...I was responding to the poster directly above that response that was talking about getting snapping turtles at age 13, not the OP.
I've said multiple times that I think the OP has done their research and, while I wouldn't recommend a BP as a first snake, that it certainly can be done. Did you even read my most recent post?

My reasons for recommending another snake prior to a BP (which MANY people did on this thread, so I'm not sure why my post was singled out) in an ideal situation is that someone who is completely unused to checking temps/humidity/ect. has a lot more leeway with temperate species until they get their husbandry correct, the lifespan is shorter for someone who doesn't actually know whether or not they'll really enjoy keeping snakes, and the setup is cheaper for someone who may have limited funds.
Does this mean no one can get it right with a BP their first time around? No. It's just my opinion that a BP isn't THE ideal beginner snake.

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I quoted a few people but only your post showed, weird. But I'm not singling you out I just think people are being too harsh with the OP's age. Keeping reptiles for me kept me away from drugs, alcohol and all the other bad influences young teens experience and I think it is great they are so enthusiastic about getting a ball python and starting a passion for reptiles. Since they proved this is something they truly want and spent so much time researching we should be helping them out instead of trying to sway them. This is the next generation that this hobby will eventually rely on and all the knowledge the better! [emoji1] I'm personally glad I didn't stick with colubrids and went with pythons and boas so why make the OP get a animal they are not happy with?

I think the main issue was that the OP wasn't sure if they would have their parents' help at all. I think that makes a huge difference when you're talking with younger keepers.

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

First of all, the kid got permission to get a BP next year with their parents' support...

Many people do not recommend BPs as beginner snakes. These recommendations were given to someone who we didn't know at the time would have help/support both financially and in husbandry from their parents. I'm glad you could raise chameleons, snapping turtles, and finicky frogs at the age of 13, because most children that age would not be able to meet the husbandry requirements with no financial help or help getting the husbandry correct.
Also betting you didn't pay for everything yourself; or you were the world's richest 13 year old.

I started with garters at the age of 12 and never had any trouble with them. Yes they can be a little flighty, but they are a lot more forgiving of husbandry issues than a BP.

IMO research is not a substitute for experience. Starting with a tropical species that has to have very specific temp ranges/hot spots/humidity requirements is very different than starting with a temperate species that barely even requires supplemental heat. Someone who isn't used to constantly checking on these parameters could easily get overwhelmed with it or make mistakes, especially a child. Saying that tropical species are not ideal beginner pets is a far cry from logic that would "deem everyone irresponsible".

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I did have parental help. I guess I was working off the assumption that a parent allowing thier child to buy a pet was to assume some finacial responsibility should it be needed. I did all maintanance.

My point was, obviously research isn't a substitute for experience. My point, rather, was that experience has a start, a point at which it begins. At some point someone has to make that leap where they buy the animal and begin the experience. All in all, I don't think BPs are difficult, or not a beginners' snake. Having a garter snake is also a different experience from having a BP. The ball python adds the more precise heating and humidity to the snake keeping experience, sure, but it's not rocket science; I don't think they make a BP deemed a difficult pet. My point of mentioning some of those other pets was that a heating or humidity error, even brief, could kill them quickly. Ball pythons are fairly hardy. Different from, say, a sunbeam snake, that might experience failure to thrive even should you be seemingly properly fulfilling all the needs they have, based on the limited information available for the species.

I'm still just missing how they're not easy reptiles. I mean I get what you're saying I guess, but I still strongly disagree. We are entitled to our own opinions, after all.

Forgive typos, I'm doing this on my phone and I suck at it.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

@serpenttongues: I am sorry I snapped. The name calling was inappropriate. From the wording of your initial post, it sounded as though you got some sort of enjoyment from your mom's discomfort, and I don't hold well to people who would treat another human being that way. I still do not approve of your method, and am even more disappointed that you thought this was good advice to pass on to a young person.

Advice: go hug your mom, tell her you love her, tell her that you're sorry about having gone against her wishes when you brought the first snake home when you were younger and more belligerent, but that you sincerely appreciate her continued support of you and your hobby, despite her discomfort.

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I appreciate the apologies. But you're right - I don't know the OP's parents, and I don't know how you parent. I only know what worked in my situation. Going out and buying the snake with my money showed them that I was responsible enough to keep the animal. Perhaps the OP's parents would've reacted the same as mine, or perhaps they would've reacted more similar to how you would react. I'm sure OP knows his parents, though. Much better than any one of us. I did not say "the only possible thing you can do is go behind your parents backs and do something they forbade". In retrospect I didn't word my initial post as clearly as I should have, mainly because I'm on this app in my free time - in the middle of the night/early morning. So to clear things up - I DO not torture my mom with reptiles, nor would I EVER do such a thing. I strive for the world to be more educated about the reality of herpetoculture, not have scare tactics shoved down their throats. That said, my mom will always for the rest of life, feign "freaking out" when she sees a snake. Most of the time when I bring them in sight of her she goes "Ahhhh what are you doing with those slimy things" then laughs and pets a tail, or simply goes on her way. Even though I'm financially responsible for myself, I do still live under her roof, and therefore would move the snakes to my boyfriends house if she ever had a problem with it (which she doesn't). I'm in no way condoning negligent behavior. I'm not telling the OP to blatantly disrespect his parents, either. I didn't even read this whole thread, just a few posts. In my situation, I asked my parents to buy me a snake over and over and they said no. So I worked up the money and I bought everything myself. At 15 I worked around the house for money to care for my snake. I'm sure the OP will do something similar. I have many reptile enthusiast friends who obtained their first snake in a similar manner, whether it be by purchasing it themselves and showing pet-keeping responsibility to their parents, or simply buying it and hiding it because their parents would get mad. So, like I said. It's all situational. I knew my parents wouldn't care about having a snake in the house, even though they thought they were nasty devilish creatures (they now know they're harmless animals who play a vital role in the ecosystem and should be respected as any other animal), but on the other hand I'm sure your kids know rather well that you wouldn't tolerate an animal being brought into the house without permission under any circumstances. The OP also knows how his parents would react to any method he chooses -- that's why he chose to go the educational/research/proof route.
So I contract the double entendre of my original post. It seems the OP already got his snake (before my post?) but for any other kids reading: listen to your parents and don't get a pet without being able to care for it


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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

@OP: Sorry about all the derails kiddo. You did the right thing, stuck to your guns, and demonstrated a lot of knowledge and initiative. It paid off now, and it will pay off again in the future. Congrats on your future pet! :gj:

@serpenttongues: I am sorry I snapped. The name calling was inappropriate. From the wording of your initial post, it sounded as though you got some sort of enjoyment from your mom's discomfort, and I don't hold well to people who would treat another human being that way. I still do not approve of your method, and am even more disappointed that you thought this was good advice to pass on to a young person.

Advice: go hug your mom, tell her you love her, tell her that you're sorry about having gone against her wishes when you brought the first snake home when you were younger and more belligerent, but that you sincerely appreciate her continued support of you and your hobby, despite her discomfort.

@Boomerang: When a grown person is advocating bad behavior, and encouraging a kid to take a course of action that could well endanger an animal, and permanently damage the trust between parent and child, then has the gall to call it "responsible," yeah, I get mad. When the person makes a reply talking about how funny they think it is when someone they should care about screams in fear and runs away from them, yeah, I get mad. Contrary to what you came into this place under the impression under, we're people. With emotions. From the tone of one of your other posts, you seem to have a problem with that.

If people reacting negatively to out right terrible advice or behavior is gonna be hard for you to deal with, maybe go hang out with some robots for a while. Now are we done derailing this thread?

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I also wanted to show him that his parents can, and most likely will, one day learn to respect snakes. While my mom doesn't want to cuddle them like a puppy, she still has a greater respect for them after holding them and whatnot. Yes, she does still say things like they're nasty/slimy/gross and whatnot, but that's just my mom. Whereas before she might kill a snake outside because it's "devilish", now she would call me and have me relocate it. She still wouldn't want to touch it/mess with it. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm running off no sleep and ten tons of coffee.




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