Can i do this!!??

Sigh, after reading all of this I can't help but to wonder.... Does the OP think 'EGADS, I simply asked a question... I had no clue all of THIS was going to develop!!' *runs and hides* lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

Nope. You see, while I do understand your need for others to acknowledge you and your accomplishments, I don't have it, that need. You can believe or not as you will without further input from me. If you think I speak untruly, well, you won't be the first and it's doubtful you'll be the last but I promise you, I won't miss a wink of sleep over it. Harsh, maybe, but you all get soooo militant soooo fast that part of the time, hence my earlier reference to both sarcasm and humor, I just push your buttons. Because I can.

You also seem to have missed the point, entirely, that I have never ever said anyone should, just that you could, and have used my own experiences as an example. Whether or not you believe means nothing to me or my snakes.

My horse may be tall, but that's because I have a large ego that in no way relies on any of you to keep it inflated. (there ya go smart guys, an opening if ever there was one)

Do what you want, ask all you want, but don't be doing just because everyone else does, especially if those doing the saying have NO experience.

---

Wow.... Wilo, this is sounding a little BG-ish without the whole third person thing; compared to your normal sarcasm. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fiq5545

I appreciate all the comments and insight all the users here have given me. I promise I had no idea I was opening pandoras box lol. But I've concluded that there is no real benefit go the animal, only mine.

---

I'm glad you're able to take it all with a grain of salt instead of running for the hills. Sometimes people say things online in ways they wouldn't in person, because they forget that text doesn't convey inflection well. As far as your original question goes, you can keep them together, and some people do, especially for the short term (moving house, hurricane evacuation, etc.). Is there any actual benefit to the animal? No. They aren't herd animals like horses or dogs, they don't need company. Maybe they'll be ok together, some are. But maybe they won't be. It's up to you to decide whether or not you want to risk that, for me that risk is too high, and there's no tangible benefit other than not having to buy more enclosures. When I consider the cost of the animal itself, the cost of feeding and maintaining it, plus the emotional investment, versus the cost of another tank or rack, I just buy the tank or rank because that comes out a lot cheaper than the other things.

I can both sides of this topic.

Most of the "con" list can be applied to almost any animal but people still keep other animals together. Take dogs for example. (We all know dogs are pack animals) Vet bills can/will be higher, if one gets sick the other one can too, you can't keep an eye on their waste as easy, they can attack and kill each other etc.
As far as stress levels, can anyone show research on this or have you just read it online? I would like to see real results. We as a community need more real facts and less online talk.
I would think in the wild they would and could be found in the same areas. For nothing more than food source alone would bring them to the same spot.
I don't think any of them would be found in a plastic tub or glass tank.

I have read papers on Rat Snakes using and being found in the same dens as Rattle Snakes or Copper Heads.

Using money or the cost of the snake should be thrown out too. No one on here should treat a free snake any different than a $1000 snake. You should respect each animal the same.

For the record, I keep mine alone.

Kind of late on this but I figured I would post since I do have some experience in this area.

Quote:

---

Thinking about getting a second bp...my first is an adult male. Can I house more than one bp in the same tank??

---

You can do whatever you want; as Wilo so kindly put it. It helps to provide a little more background to you question and people will be able to provide better insight when answering a question.(i.e. I have a tank this big and have this much experience with snakes etc.....) I took the liberty of looking at your past posts to get some background, I would strongly advise against keeping two ball pythons together if you are relatively new to keeping in order to get a handle on the basic care of one snake, at the very least.

Quote:

---

Does it have to be another male? Is it recommended? Any advice, thanks in advance!

---

No, you don't want another male since you already have one they will likely fight/battle as most males of any species do when stuck together for a prolonged period; mine did, and while it was not anything more than harmless wrestling there is always a winner. This means there is a dominant male who in the wild gets breeding rights the loser takes off with his pride hurt until the next chance he gets, only this time he has nowhere to run and will likely become stressed out leading to not eating possible decline in health etc.....

Male and a female, better? Do you plan on breeding? My male and female were kept together from a young age and the opposite happened to me, years later(3) they would not breed or show any interest (he bred my other females though)

Female and Female, If you house any 2 snakes together you need to feed them in a separate container I don't care what anyone tells you, this is a MUST; but the feeding in a separate container is a whole other can of worms. I had a female attack my other female when I placed her back in the enclosure after feeding (they were both fed that day) luckily she let go and I was a little uneasy about placing another snake in with her from then on. fast forward man years later I was feeding some hatchlings in a tub outside of their own, one had started to eat it’s mouse I fed it and being impatient I figure I would feed another hatchling in the same tub to speed things up, as I am dangling a mouse for it he decides he wants to eat the mouse the other snake is already eating; I was able to get him off after a little struggle but lesson learned.

In my experience there is no real benefit to housing 2 snakes together other than your personal enjoyment, the snakes can really care less and some flat out do not enjoy the company of other BPs other then breeding season. It is true that there are some snakes that share a den in the wild but they are in brumation and are not exactly doing a whole lot of eating or moving for that matter, ball pythons do not brumate. I have yet to see a picture or heard of a ball python sharing a termite mound in the wild, I now only keep my animals solo.

I house my snakes separately. They may be found together in the wild as mentioned previously, but naturally they are solitary animals. I feel that stress levels could be raised though the natural inclination toward competition for resources but as mentioned previously I have no scientific proof to back that up (i will look though).
I think the biggest issue for me is that I would be unable to tell if one snake was sick.
P.S in almost all cases of cannibalism both snakes die.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

As much as I can not stand wilomn's ridiculous attitude, I feel the need to add some information regarding the issue of predation between two ball pythons being housed together. The only reports of this I have ever come across outline issues with hatchlings being eaten by one another and it isn't something that happens (or at least documented) with enough regularity for people to be constantly worried about it.

That aside,
I do not advocate cohabitation with ball pythons, but if I were to try it I would use females only, of at least 350g in size. This avoids issues with premature copulation and male sparring. At 350g in size they should not longer be interested in consuming one another, so that would rule out predation.

I don't really see a point to cohabitation beyond only having one setup for multiple animals. I personally keep all my snakes separate unless breeding them; It makes sense to keep them apart for many reasons (keeping records, preventing spread of illness, preventing issues with unwanted breeding, preventing issues with male sparring). I am also someone who likes to quarantine new animals and have saved myself from a lot of issues because of this practice. I like to remove as much chance from my herp keeping as possible and allow for as much control over the state of my collection as I can. I find it easier to manage them this way.

wilomn,
I find your approach to be really silly. You are trying to make a valid point(s) but your attitude and presentation is such that you are not doing so effectively. If you want to sway the minds of others, try providing the same proof you expect them to provide you with. Your time spent in the hobby doesn't make your methods right (even if they work for you). If you want others to explore the methods you have found success in over the years, you are going to have to be open and willing to share your experience in detail with the community. We could all be losing out because you are unwilling to put some effort in your posts. On the other hand, you could simply be a pompus jerk who thinks he knows it all and is even more stubborn than all those folks who provide reasons and explination as to why they don't see eye to eye with him. I mean, you leave a lot of room to assume.

Do yourself and the community a favor and explain your methods, show us some photos of how you accomplished this successfully, and stop shaking a stick from your porch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TJ_Burton

As much as I can not stand wilomn's ridiculous attitude, I feel the need to add some information regarding the issue of predation between two ball pythons being housed together. The only reports of this I have ever come across outline issues with hatchlings being eaten by one another and it isn't something that happens (or at least documented) with enough regularity for people to be constantly worried about it.

That aside,
I do not advocate cohabitation with ball pythons, but if I were to try it I would use females only, of at least 350g in size. This avoids issues with premature copulation and male sparring. At 350g in size they should not longer be interested in consuming one another, so that would rule out predation.

I don't really see a point to cohabitation beyond only having one setup for multiple animals. I personally keep all my snakes separate unless breeding them; It makes sense to keep them apart for many reasons (keeping records, preventing spread of illness, preventing issues with unwanted breeding, preventing issues with male sparring). I am also someone who likes to quarantine new animals and have saved myself from a lot of issues because of this practice. I like to remove as much chance from my herp keeping as possible and allow for as much control over the state of my collection as I can. I find it easier to manage them this way.

wilomn,
I find your approach to be really silly. You are trying to make a valid point(s) but your attitude and presentation is such that you are not doing so effectively. If you want to sway the minds of others, try providing the same proof you expect them to provide you with. Your time spent in the hobby doesn't make your methods right (even if they work for you). If you want others to explore the methods you have found success in over the years, you are going to have to be open and willing to share your experience in detail with the community. We could all be losing out because you are unwilling to put some effort in your posts. On the other hand, you could simply be a pompus jerk who thinks he knows it all and is even more stubborn than all those folks who provide reasons and explination as to why they don't see eye to eye with him. I mean, you leave a lot of room to assume.

Do yourself and the community a favor and explain your methods, show us some photos of how you accomplished this successfully, and stop shaking a stick from your porch.

---

You have, intentionally or otherwise, misunderstood. What you do or do not do is fine. But, when someone says flat out that I, or you, CANNOT do something, I occasionally feel the urge to respond. My response is complete.

I leave a lot of room to jump off cliffs for those so inclined. Much like ASSuming, you are free to jump if you so choose, in fact, in your case, I'd recommend it, but then, it IS the only recommendation I've made in this thread so you should probably not go jumping off any enticing cliffs. My intent was never to sway anyone to anything. I'm just not real fond of absolutes that are untrue nor those who promulgate them through stupidity and ignorance.

Now, get off my porch before I release the hounds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

You have, intentionally or otherwise, misunderstood. What you do or do not do is fine. But, when someone says flat out that I, or you, CANNOT do something, I occasionally feel the urge to respond. My response is complete.

---

Come on let's be honest. We all read your posts, we all know you enjoy shaking trees to see how many nuts will fall down.;) Personally most of the time I find it entertaining to read.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob

Come on let's be honest. We all read your posts, we all know you enjoy shaking trees to see how many nuts will fall down.;) Personally most of the time I find it entertaining to read.

---

Hell, even I enjoy it!

Just a shame that he won't fill the blanks for those of us who would actually like to know more about his practices and how they work. My post was in hopes to entice him into giving out some information that we can all use to think on.