a few observations

im not just talking about one snake im talking about every bp ive had thats had an enclosure where it could climb. and yes the snake was climbing to get to a warm spot but thats not my point. my point is healthy ball pythons are not clumsy and should be able to easily climb and rest on a branch and they will do so if given the opportunity. this is where the rack systems are lacking in my oppinion.

Snake was climbing to get warm.., and that's not the point? If it had a warm spot on the ground, would it of climbed? No probably not.

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Originally Posted by mr~python

ok, if the only time your snake is out and about is to poop shed eat feed or switch hides then something is wrong. a bp should regularly come out and roam the cage at night, especially when its getting closer to feeding day but i too noticed this lack of activity when i kept mine in a rack system for a couple of years. my guess is they didnt have anything else to do!

if your python has a tendency to fall when it climbs a branch there is also something wrong. when i kept mine in an oversized enclosure with a large branch i had one snake that would coil on a branch like a tree python and bask under the che. a healthy, fit ball python can climb with ease.

to the dude who thinks im some kind of field scientist in Africa, i never said that. i said im just as interested in bp's natural history as much as there captive husbandry which is why i find the shelf and shoebox method to be quite lame.

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Actually a content python is a hiding python. They should come out in the evening as they are nocturnal.

The emotions you are placing on the snakes are human emotions. Because you would feel cramped in something comparatively the same size for you, it doesn't mean it is for them.

My tubs provide perfect humidity and thermo gradients. Which can be done in tanks, but is more complicated to achieve. Your ball python climbed the tree and basked under your CHE for that reason! You were using a CHE and it had to get warm. Doesn't mean it enjoyed it.

Also, your thinking 85 hot side and 75 cool side is on the low side. We know this because of the basic care that has been collaborated on by many people, perfecting it. We know what our snakes thrive at, and what makes them unhappy or even ill. We know that many BPs will regularly be too stressed in larger than necessary enclosures to even want to eat. Tell me how that makes them happy again?

Just because you have something that worked for 1 or 2 snakes does not mean that the industry/hobby should change everything that has been proven countless times to be the standard. You're assuming that BP breeders that use racks are trying to run a "puppy mill" type situation. Well in most cases you're wrong. I as well as any breeder I associate myself with care about their animals. We are constantly reading and learning about new updates on their care and husbandry. Making sure they live long healthy lives. There are people out there that don't care about the conditions of their animals, and they disgust me.

Now I am not saying that you have to play with your snakes daily and treat them as pets. You do however need to provide top notch care for them. That's our responsibility as breeders. Anyone who doesn't, needs to get out of the industry.

Your free to think what you are doing is right and what we do is wrong. That's just fine as long as your animals are healthy. We will continue to do things the way we do them, the proven way to ensure our animals are healthy and content.

One last thing, if you can't afford a $2-$5 rat once a week, you should have given up your snake to someone who could have taken care of it. Feeding any wild animal to your captive snake is incredibly stupid. Be glad your snake didn't get parasites.

Racks and tubs are acceptable housing for a ball. BPs spend 90% of their time in the wild holed up in termite mounds and rodent burrows. Can't image a rodent burrow is very spacious.
They only leave to find more food, mate, or a new burrow. And usually they just eat the occupant of the said burrow, rest, then find a new burrow to feed in.

Naturalistic housing is great. But racks are fine too. Its just personal preference.

And yikes to feeding wild caught animals and not practicing quarantine . I suggest you take your snakes to the vet and get them dewormed. Or at least a fecal done.
I'm fairly surprised your snake would even take a bird as prey if you truly aren't trolling...........

BPs are heavy bodied snakes. Sure some can climb, but they're built for terrestrial movements. They're not slinky like ATB or GTPs, which both evolved as aboreal animals. BPs are just not fine climbers like them due to their large bulk. So a clumsy climbing BP is reasonable....


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Also, as a nocturnal animal, they rarely come out to bask in the sun. They get most of their heat from the residual warmth of the ground and rocks. Do your snakes a favor and get a UTH + thermostat. The only reason they're coiled up in the branch like a GTP is because they have no other heating option..... Call it their last resort......

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Originally Posted by mr~python

im inclined to believe the majority of you look at keeping reptiles the wrong way. there are people with critically thinking brains, and then there are people on internet message boards.

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I am inclined to believe that we shouldn't listen to someone who when they fall on hard times decides to hunt humming birds rather than re-home there animal. If you can't afford the price off a single rat once or twice a month you have no business keeping any animals captive.

http://www.medstudentsonline.com.au/...f_serious.jpeg

i keep my snakes in a wooden enclosure with flexwatt on a thermostat under the cage.

also, it should be noted the snake coiled under the che would sit there for a moment warming up, then roam the cage when it was hungry. and only at night. i believe already said bps should be active AT NIGHT. not during the day. you guys are changing up what i say in order to support your weak arguments.

theres only so much to learn about how to keep a bp healthy. its not hard. im saying you guys should take things to the next level. you all follow a strictly regimented way of doing things. its quite funny. think outside the tub so your animals can thrive. if you really cared about ball pythons you kooks wouldnt be reproducing strains like spiders who are proven to be genetically unhealthy. but hey as long as it looks pretty and fetches a pretty penny right? lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr~python

i keep my snakes in a wooden enclosure with flexwatt on a thermostat under the cage.

also, it should be noted the snake coiled under the che would sit there for a moment warming up, then roam the cage when it was hungry. and only at night. i believe already said bps should be active AT NIGHT. not during the day. you guys are changing up what i say in order to support your weak arguments.

theres only so much to learn about how to keep a bp healthy. its not hard. im saying you guys should take things to the next level. you all follow a strictly regimented way of doing things. its quite funny. think outside the tub so your animals can thrive. if you really cared about ball pythons you kooks wouldnt be reproducing strains like spiders who are proven to be genetically unhealthy. but hey as long as it looks pretty and fetches a pretty penny right? lol

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I wouldn't call a spider's wobble genetically unhealthy. I guess humans shouldn't breed either because we have the chance of producing kids with autism or Down syndrome?

I didn't say that you said they should come out during the day, I actually agreed with you that they are nocturnal. However, a PROPERLY fed BP should not need to "hunt" daily and roam all night. If its in its hide at night, it's content. It's not like it thinks "hmm, think ill go for a midnight stroll". They are instinctual animals. They do what they need to survive. Once again, you are placing your human emotions on them. They don't think like you.

Like Satomi said, they live in cramped termite mounds and rodents burrows. Being out and about is stressful for them in the wild. They have to worry about predators and the like. In my home, in their tubs, they have no need to go anywhere because I provide them with everything they seek in the wild.

Your snakes in their display enclosure is for your benefit. It's because you want to see them and because you are putting human emotion onto them thinking they would like a room with a view. They don't. I bet you believe your snakes just love being held and hanging out with you too. They don't. They may tolerate it, but they don't need nor want it.

I know what I said, but mr python, I'm talking about BEFORE I had a rack and used tanks that were HUGE!!

Mine would do the same as you say, climb up and sit under the light. It's because it can't get warm enough while hiding so it had to climb the tree to get warm. Once I added a 2nd hide, covered most of the too and got ambient temps up to par, then she hid. Also, I said she came out to eat, meaning, when she's hungry she would come roam for food. So stop trying to be me smarty pants and stop while your ah...sorry, your too far behind to ever be ahead lol.

You might as well delete your account if you're going to keep on. I think you need a 2 week IP ban to help change your mind on this!!


Ball Pythons
0.3 Normals (Coilette, Athena and Mary Jane)
1.0 Pastel (De Sol)
1.0 Spider (Zeus)
1.0 Mojave (Prometheus)

Boa Constrictors
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Stella)
0.1 BCI (Kiyoko)
0.1 Dumerils Boa (Gloria)