Really, is the market getting that bad?

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Originally Posted by Don

Prices are not dropping in half for most morphs every year and even if they did, there is still money to be made. Suppose you buy a female morph for $2000. The next year, prices drop to 50% and you pick up a male for $1000. The third year, you breed and produce six babies that you sell for $500 each (notice the drop of 50% each year). You have recouped your initial investment and next year if you get a clutch of six babies and the price drops to $250, then you profit $1,500. The upkeep is not that expensive. I breed my own rodents, so that helps keep cost down. Even if you figure in the cost of upkeep of the three breeders, you will still make a profit after the third year.

Now, if you keep investing in your collection you can do exactly what Deborah did. Get to a point where you are making a good profit and re-investing in your collection. You do have to be smart about it and pick some good genes and quality snakes. You also have to provide great customer service, work at establishing a solid reputation and making good business decisions.

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I agree with Don and Deborah 100%.

In 2009 I purchased a male albino for $275. Last year I produced male albinos and sold them for $250 - $300 and pretty much the same this year. Prices will drop and that is expected as the supply becomes greater than the demand but I would also expect that prices come to a plateau. Use the example of the albino, I don't think they will come down much more from where they are today.

They key is to produce quality animals, provide excellent customer service and produce animals that others will desire to add to their collection.
Just my 2 cents.

My point wasn't that you can't have a self sustaining hobby. My point was that you are not going to get into this to make a living off of it unless you spend quit a bit of money.

As far as upkeep goes. We have around 100 balls. They really don't cost much after the initial cost of the original animal and the tubs and water bowls. We use free newsprint for the tubs. I am sure the heat adds up a little over the year. The Biggest part is the rodents. We go through around $1000 (give or take) a year for bedding and food.

Female balls will not go every year. Some will, some wont. Some will go at 2 years of age some more than 3. Last year we only had 6 clutches. We still managed to make about 7k. The only problem with that was that about 6k of that was in trades. We have only been breeding balls for about 5 years. The prices in the past 5 years have dropped SIGNIFICANTLY.
Pewter females were going for about $2400 in 07. They now go for about $300-400.
Calico's were about $5-6k, now $300-500.
Pied males were about $3k for med white, now $500.
Lavs were going for about $12k, now $1500-2k. Hets were about 2k a pair now $500.
Some morphs have stayed relatively close to what they were, like Pastels.

If you bought a female Calico in 07 for 6k chances are she was only able to breed for one or 2 seasons. Lets say she took 4 years to go and this was your first season breeding her and she gave you one clutch of 8 eggs. If you get lucky and get 6 Calico's, all female... that's $1800. Now I am sure she wasn't bred to just a normal. So maybe she was bred by your 07 Lemon Pastel that you paid $200 for back in 07. now the babies you produced were 3.3 Pastel Calico's. That's about $5400. Not bad at all. But that's if you started out 5 years ago, Not now.


Colin Weaver (ECRB) has written up some rather good articles about our hobby, the costs associated with and the price drops.

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Originally Posted by joebad976

I agree with Don and Deborah 100%.

In 2009 I purchased a male albino for $275.

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That was a killer deal I guess because males were actually selling for about $400-500 in 09 and het pairs were about $300.

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Originally Posted by collrak

I agree. You can't come into this hobby thinking that you'll make a profit. Sure, there are breeders that do it full time for a living, but for most of us who have day jobs, it's a money losing hobby. That's what hobbies are though. We spend money on it for our enjoyment, not necessarily for a profit. Breeding and selling just helps offset the cost of maintaining the hobby. Morph prices drop so quickly too. Look at bumblebees and lemon blasts. They're beautiful 2-gene combos, but by next year you'll see males going for $200 and females for $300, if not lower.

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Lemon Blasts are already there, I was going to pick one up from my boss for $250.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Over how many years and when did you start? Not to mention that it was a lot different when you started up. Imagine you just now starting up. Do you think it would end up being the same way now? I doubt it. The economy plus the prices are so drastically different now days. Like comparing apples to oranges. Not to mention Deb, you also have some stuff that you proved out yourself don't you? That helps out your collection a lot. :D

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While I have over a decade experience with various reptiles the breeding part only started in 2008 date at which I produced my first BPs so it's not that long ago (price had already dropped at that point) and again I started modestly with a few hets and other animals, I have always choose quality over quantity and build my collection very slowly holding back most females I have produced.

Yes price on single gene animals have dropped which is why people need to be smart about what they breed if they breed a spider or a pastel to a few normals they are not gonna make a meaningful profit.

They need to chose their project and breed for combos and build their collection slowly if they don't want or can't invest a lot of money but I believe they can still make a profit in 5 years or less.

As for the "thing" (Enchi Pin PH Pied) I proved out this year it is not my animal and while lucky to have produced the very first Enchi Pin Pied I do not own that specific animal but it did help my collection to a degree but not the degree you think ;) (Still working on making more though)

First, I probably have enough new mutations in my racks to know BPs aren't going anywhere for a long time. A looong time.

Second, there is money to be made at any level in ball pythons. I think it takes a knack, and like some have said, quality is very important. It is a separator when producing the same animals as your competitors. People like seeing different and different can be defined by quality or genetics. Different is new, new is interesting, interesting is exciting and excitement sells. I sell to people who are excited about their purchase.

Lastly, I honestly take pride in thinking someone can make money off the animals I sell them. I intend to keep that same principle because I believe it will keep good returning customers for me. I want to be held accountable, and even though I'm not breeding their snakes for them, I still take that into account into my business goals and development.

A lot of breeders really don't care and just want to make money. They sell animals from unhealthy projects, to uneducated buyers at high prices that are sure to fall. Set people up for failure. I believe that is a problem. If you want to make money or pay for their hobby, please research possible production rates, where that project originated and invest in a breeder like you would the snake you're buying. Investments shouldn't be hair pulling, but fun and exciting.