Ball python "mills" *rant* (Not trying to offend anyone)

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

Ball Pythons kept in sub sub sub par conditions simply won't breed. In fact, they'll probably just die.

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Exactly! A BP kept in improper conditions will simply quit feeding and never become breedable. You get out of your BP's what you put into them...for the most part.

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Originally Posted by Rob

Idk, I see them trading blows pretty evenly to this point.

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Go look at some of Wes' posts and writings in the past. I love reading what he has to say...It's almost poetic. Even when he is ripping someone.

*Grabs popcorn* VERBAL BATTLE!!!!!


Yea I agree that the term "mill" may have not been quite the right choice of words, I simply couldn't think of a better one. I suppose I should have titled it "Negligent Breeders"

I was most definitely not talking about any of the big breeders, they all take great care of their snakes from everything I have read/ seen, more about the backyard breeder-type of keepers (before anyone gets mad I'm not saying anything about the at-home-hobby-breeders, of which I am one.) No, I have seen quite a few snakes that were rescued from situations where the person thought they would be a breeder but then failed to keep up with all but the most basic maintenance so that the snakes were not kept in healthy conditions. The saddest part to me is that snakes not being vocal means they are a little more easily forgotten by a lazy owner than a dog who try to get your attention.

When I had written the post I had not really taken into account these snakes stubbornness, which in this case I think is a good thing :)

If your snakes are plenty healthy enough to breed every year then that's great as long as you use good judgement, which I think mostly everyone on here would do.


LOL @ pinup snakes...awesome mental image.

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

So I read a post in a thread somewhere that reminded me of an aspect of this hobby that bothers me quite a bit and not wanting to hijack that thread, I figured I would rant about it in my own darned thread :)

This would be the snake equivalent to puppy mills. People who see these animals as money-making breeding machines and little else. I have heard from more than one person (not necessarily on here) that their goal every year is to basically start power feeding their females the second they've laid so that they can lay even more next year; lather, rinse, repeat. I guess I understand that money is a strong motivator and BP's are a way to make money buuuuuut they are LIVING, FEELING, ANIMALS!!!

The idea of making them breed year after year after year just so you don't loose out on any money is repulsive to me. That's gotta be detrimental in some way. Every other year okay if they are healthy and well kept, and back to back sometimes if they really plump back up quickly and seem ready to go again. But please don't breed them to death. I look at my snakes and thinking of any of them being treated that way makes my heart feel sick. It almost makes me not want to breed so I can be sure I won't be selling any snakes that may be treated in this manner. That's not even touching on the people who hear they can "make lots of money breeding ball pythons" and get them but don't even bother to learn how to properly take care of them or are just too frugal to spend the money on proper basic husbandry tools or veterinary care.


Okay... well, I think I feel better. I just get sad thinking of how a lot of people treat animals: like they're expendable or just a product:(.

And to all of you who actually care about your snakes and really try to treat them the best you can and give them a good life: thank you, you're awesome!!!!:)

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You name no names.

You site no sources.

You are unknown.

I'm pretty good at reading and I'm reading you telling me that your way is the good way and anyone doing anything for money is bad. Sort of. You do manage to hedge just enough to cover your backside if someone, as is now the case, calls you out on your insistence of your correctness in spite of the fact that you have ... how much experience?

Who are these people you have heard these terrible things from? Are they, like you, relatively new, inexperienced and prone to expressing poorly formed thoughts in words not quite adequate to convey what they, as you, thought they meant to say?

It's not so much waffling, though that is exactly what it is, but saying one thing yesterday and another today, when with a bit of thought about any point of view other than your own you could have avoided the hoof-in-mouth outbreak you're obviously suffering from.

Yes, yes, I realize you were just ranting.

But seriously, are you going to use that as an excuse for your inability to express what you REALLY meant, now that you've changed your mind, seen the error of your ways, decided that maybe you don't know everything, even though you obviously thought you did, until now? Because if you are, I'll clue you in on a little something that I've found to be pretty much true all over, it's not MY problem. You wanna be understooded? Speak more gooder.

Think twice, post once. You who carpent should recognize the origin of that old but true adage.

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

*Grabs popcorn* VERBAL BATTLE!!!!!

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After reading the OP and this post, I have realized that you seem to be posting for attention. I agree with the post just above this one. Think twice and post once. :colbert:

Well, I guess because I don't handle my ball pythons other for cleaning, moving males in with females, removing females from tubs after laying, etc., etc., and I don't technically "love" my snakes, and because I did start out owning ball pythons to breed, means what again? I'm a "negligent breeder"?
All of my snakes are very well taken care of, and if anything ( knock on wood ) happens to them they get the care they need. But because I don't see my ball pythons in the same light as you yours, means I'm running a "snake mill"?

:colbert: ridiculousness

My opinion is "bull spit".

You don't mean big breeders or hobby breeders, just 'backyard breeders', which suddenly doesn't apply to anyone mentioned.

They "make" the snakes breed. False. You can not make a female breed.

It's wrong to breed every year. False. I know a few breeders who have females 20 years old that have bred every year.

It's wrong to breed for money. False. There is nothing wrong in breeding snakes to sell and make a profit on.

You seem angry over something, but you're not saying anything that's wrong... just slinging terms used by animal rights extremists to purposely be vague. "Puppy mill" and "backyard breeder" have no definition, as you've demonstrated by deliberately saying it doesn't apply to ANYONE that people have mentioned.

What is a mill? How many animals does it take before it's a BP mill? If they are starving the females, they don't breed. If they introduce males to a female who isn't ready to breed, generally they don't breed. If they have more than 5 animals are they a mill? How about ten? 200? What if they have 500 but they're all well cared for AND they breed females every year?

I suggest you look further into what you're ranting about because frankly I think you're going on some vague idea in your head, put there by people who have a personal agenda. It's okay to say "I didn't think this through" or "I need to consider the reality of ball python breeders more so I can decide what I think."

I fully admit, I have NOT made a profit overall on my animals. I fully admit I thought I would make a profit on my breeding plans. But I didn't start breeding "only" to make money. I started because I wanted to MAKE one of the cool animals I saw but couldn't afford. I even printed a photo of one of the first albino/pied BP to put on the wall to encourage me when I was cleaning bins and washing water bowls. I don't consider myself to be a bad person for wanting to make a little cash to continue in the hobby while making awesome snakes too.

Didn't read post #25. That's what I was talking about.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I started because I wanted to MAKE one of the cool animals I saw but couldn't afford. I even printed a photo of one of the first albino/pied BP to put on the wall to encourage me when I was cleaning bins and washing water bowls.

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I thought I was the only one :P

:( Jeez....I wasn't trying to upset anyone...or post for attention, I didn't mean for this to blow up the way it did. I was just venting, I'm sorry if I made anyone mad.... I had also just been talking to a friend with a rescue snake, who is now getting much better but was in BAD shape from the previous owner. Many of the people I have heard such things from were in person so I cannot give sources.

To further add: I see no problem with making money from breeding, just that some people *not all by far* seem to care more about the money than the health of the animal they are breeding to acquire it, this is not just a snake thing, it's pretty much all animals.

So take this as an honest apology, I will "Think twice, post once" next time.

The "verbal battle" post was about all the comments on how eloquent Wes is with his tearing people apart and Susan keeping pace.

I'm sorry guys... now I feel crummy and sad