Hybrid project

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Originally Posted by mr.spooky

yes, i do.. i am using sheds of male blood python, and of a female ball python.
also, im taking used substrate papers from each and puting in the enclosure too.
spooky

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so has the pied shown any interest? i wonder if he would go after the blood without her being scented, or are they both completly ignoring eachother?

sometimes the pied is cruzing the enclosure, and cruzing on top of her, but i havent seen him trying to posture her. she still seems unintrested..'
also, i havent mentioned yet, but i have put a hide in the T10 so the ball can get into. when i check them in the daytime, he stays in the hide but at night hees out roaming.
spooky

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr.spooky

if im understanding what your saying,, you are right. if i do get lucky enough to breed my blood with my BP, i will then have superballs (F1) het for pied.
if i breed a female F1 back to a pied this will deviate form what im looking for,, and yes, it would probabaly look more like a BP than a "superball".
but,, if i take a female F1 (het for pied) and breed it to a male F1 (het for pied),,, then the F2 stands a chance of being a visual pied superball.
as long as you breed "superballs"X "superballs" there going to be superballs. if you start breeding superballs back to the origional species, thell start resembling the origional species. this is one of the main concerns that people have with hybrids..
hope iv made some sence.
spooky

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That made sense to me :]
I was not even sure what i posted made sense but glad we understand each other aha.
What will you do with the babies that look more like a blood, as well as the others who turn out more like a ball?

I am following this project as well. it it interesting.

Call me a negative Nancy but i have a feeling that the pied gene will only attach itself to the other ball python gene. Meaning the only offspring that will have the pied is the ones that look more like a ball python than blood. :ninja:

from what i understand, all of the F1's will look like "super balls". im not sure that half of the clutch will resemble one and the other half the other. as iv said before, im learning about this, so ill look in to that. regardless, ill be keeping all ofspring for some years.
about the nancy part,, i truly dont know about that, iv talked to a few DVM's about that,, and in theory, the pied gene is not selective as to wich baby it goes to.
spooky

See, and here is where it starts to get messy and muddy...

I'm going to simplify this (what happens in genetics, zygote production is much messier in real life) for the sake of understanding. For F1 superballs, each parent contributes half the genetic material (one half of each chromosome). They are half and half. If you then breed two of these, you have no control which half of each chromosome ends up in egg and sperm - the ball python half or the blood half. It's possible in this next set of offspring to get any range of percentages, and any range of appearances. It's here that offspring passed on can get confused if passed on to others. You don't know that they will stay in someone's possession for 30+ years.

I'm a dork, so I drew a little sample just looking at 6 chromosomes. Sometimes it's easier seeing it visually.
http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/apelila/images/IMG.jpg

Of course, this is assuming their chromosomes match up and that there are no crossovers, etc during zygote production. It still gets the idea across.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aahmn

See, and here is where it starts to get messy and muddy...

I'm going to simplify this (what happens in genetics, zygote production is much messier in real life) for the sake of understanding. For F1 superballs, each parent contributes half the genetic material (one half of each chromosome). They are half and half. If you then breed two of these, you have no control which half of each chromosome ends up in egg and sperm - the ball python half or the blood half. It's possible in this next set of offspring to get any range of percentages, and any range of appearances. It's here that offspring passed on can get confused if passed on to others. You don't know that they will stay in someone's possession for 30+ years.

I'm a dork, so I drew a little sample just looking at 6 chromosomes. Sometimes it's easier seeing it visually.
http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/apelila/images/IMG.jpg

Of course, this is assuming their chromosomes match up and that there are no crossovers, etc during zygote production. It still gets the idea across.

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thanks for the post!
i think that i understand what your saying,, though im gonna need to study your diagram a little longer for it to sink in LOL.
i went back to the Roussis Reptiles web sight and even there he describes the F2's carying a look of their own. if you look at the diference of the F1's and F2's on their page, it helps explain what you have stated.
BUT,,, i gotta say, even the F2's look of less resemblance to the origional parents... to me, it would be almost imposible to confuse a F1, or expecially a F2 to the origional BP/ blood python parents.
now, if you talk about breeding a "super ball" back to an origional parent, i could see that getting a little iffy.....
thanks again for your post, and please feel free coment again. you brought new things to my attention.. like iv always said, im learning.
spooky

any more progress here spooky?

From what I've seen from other hybrid breedings on other forums, this will be a while before anything happens. Patience seems to be one of the biggest parts of projects like these. Not to mention, some snakes simply will never show interest! Just another reason why despite quite a few people being interested in producing hybrids we don't see too many around. Isn't quite as simple as breeding ball pythons, lol! A lot of people lose interest or projects never work out. It's always interesting when they do though! So good luck, spooky!

not a damn thing. im gonna pick up a few Barry White CD's tomorrow.......
i dunno, from what im understanding, these blood/ball hybrids are just a luck of the draw type thing. i havent posted any updates,, because there hasent been any. ill keep on keeping on, and give it my best shot, but thats all i can do.
soon im thinking about geting into blood python morphs, and ill be geting a few neo's. that will leave me about 2 to 3 more years to try at these hybrids, and after that, ill be refocusing my blood efforts.
just to keep ya posted in the future, ill try to make it a point to reup this post no matter what the news is.
thanks man
ill keep yall posted.
spooky

I figured there wouldnt be much, but thought I'd ask anyway, good luck :gj: