Is the BP Market ready for another breeder?

Below are the 2011 CITES export quotas for ball pythons.
(PDF can be found here: http://www.cites.org/common/quotas/2...Quotas2011.pdf)

I know not all of these go to the US, but I'm sure that all of the normals produced by all of the US breeders would barely make a dent in what is imported here. Even if I have to match import pricing it's more money than I would get sticking them in the freezer. I'm really just not sure how freezing them would make any sense :confused:

Benin
45,000 ranched
1,000 wild taken

Ghana
7,000 live, wild taken
60,000 live, ranched
200 live, captive bred

Niger
500 live, wild taken

Togo
1,500 wild taken
62,500 ranched

Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the main purpose of wild caught imports was to get fresh genetics and genetic lines. That's why imported normals are valued more than normals produced from years of captive hatching/breeding - it's that unknown gene that you may stumble upon with a wc.

Again, I may be very wrong.

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Originally Posted by JulieInNJ

Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the main purpose of wild caught imports was to get fresh genetics and genetic lines. That's why imported normals are valued more than normals produced from years of captive hatching/breeding - it's that unknown gene that you may stumble upon with a wc.

Again, I may be very wrong.

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I don't think that's the only reason. Stores like Petco and Petsmart have deals with importers and only sell captive hatched ball pythons as far as I know.

Also, I don't know how many people read Reptiles magazine but there was an interesting article recently that said freezing is no longer considered a humane way to euthanize a reptile. If I remember correctly (I'm at work and I don't have it in front of me), studies have found that ice crystals form on the brain causing pain as the animal dies. I know it's a little off topic, but since freezing seems to be an accepted form of euthanizing snakes I thought I'd bring it up.

Back in the day that was the case but it is alot harder for the average joe to get something special now that the industry is what it is. It is alot more profesional and thorough over there now. The guys getting the specials now are the guy with people in the field on the payroll

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Originally Posted by that_dc5

And if I offended anyone, I am sincerely sorry for knowing someone who does that :rolleyes:, I did not choose to meet this person, nor did I ask what he did with his normals. This is just info I came across, and i am sharing it with the forums on a topic related to it. I was using him as an example, I was trying to start a commotion with what he does.

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Did you actually see this person cull animals this way? Or did they actually reveal this information to you directly?

If not, this just sounds like more hearsay spiraling out into ugly gossip.

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Originally Posted by Kinra

Also, I don't know how many people read Reptiles magazine but there was an interesting article recently that said freezing is no longer considered a humane way to euthanize a reptile. If I remember correctly (I'm at work and I don't have it in front of me), studies have found that ice crystals form on the brain causing pain as the animal dies. I know it's a little off topic, but since freezing seems to be an accepted form of euthanizing snakes I thought I'd bring it up.

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Yes. There have been many discussions on the topic, including the one here.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...think-is-right

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Originally Posted by Quiet Tempest

Did you actually see this person cull animals this way? Or did they actually reveal this information to you directly?

If not, this just sounds like more hearsay spiraling out into ugly gossip.

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Lol you're right I woke up this morning and asked myself how I can start a huge debate on bp.net :rolleyes:. I'm not going on about this anymore. Believe what you want to believe, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Wow guys, I was unaware that people are only paying 10 buck for a normal.....I am in New Mexico, Albuquerque is about 3.5 hours from me, Lubbock and Amarillo texas are about 1.5 hrs from me. I have supplied baby normals to pet stores in all 3 cities. I have bought ball pythons from pet store wholesalers and they get a good bit more than that for wild caughts.... Quality pet supply in oklahoma city gets 25 for wild caughts. I will not take less than 15 a piece for my normals. Most of the time store owners are happy to buy them from me because they know the quality of the animals they get from me is better, they pay less and get animals that feed well. If I am going to a bigger city around me I make a few phone calls if I need to move some normal balls, boas, or geckos. Dont get me wrong it isnt just about money, I have walked out of more than one store and refused to sell them anything

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Originally Posted by JulieInNJ

Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the main purpose of wild caught imports was to get fresh genetics and genetic lines. That's why imported normals are valued more than normals produced from years of captive hatching/breeding - it's that unknown gene that you may stumble upon with a wc.

Again, I may be very wrong.

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8 years ago maybe, now a days it's all big business and yes a few yellow bellies or unknown hets may come through but thats a needle in a haystack today.

I have been breeding reptiles for over 10 years and have never heard of anyone culling healthy animals whatsoever. Why when there is no no problem selling normals and pos hets to petstores, now market sizes can vary from city to city but like the import numbers above show, the reptile market keeps growing and is still very far from the mainstream pet market. Yes the imports are cheaper but many are mite infested, shipped in horrid conditions, have never fed and sadly many don't do well. Breeders can offer them established, feeding, healthier animals. Odds areI would say you have a significantly better chance of getting freebie hets from domestic captive hatched babies at the Pet store than any import as many breeders like myself sell pos hets wholesale as many today are worth the almost as much as normals, het ghosts and albinos are perfect examples.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

$10 is the wholesale price for ball pythons. Most breeders do not wholesale their animals, so you don't need to worry about that. If you sell the animals individually you can easily get anywhere from $25 - $75 each depending on whom you sell to.

I haven't heard of breeders killing normals just because they aren't worth the money, but I suppose it's possible.

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I dont think breeders are killing normals they whole sale them off I sell my normals for $20 wholesale is cheaper,stop bringing all thye imports in if you want to see the prices go up there are enough out there right now that normals donot have to be taken from the wild. js