Feeding in a seperate tank

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tcutting

If you are so inclined to believe that there is no way to condition them on this subject, then that would mean in NO WAY do they ever get use to being handled and human interaction of any kind.

---

The issue I have with your comments is that you presented them as facts and then when pressed to back them up you pulled way back, and now you are constructing a straw man to argue against. The fact that we are denying your claims that snakes can be conditioned against cage aggression by feeding in tubs does not in anyway mean that they don't get accustomed to being handled by humans or human interaction of any kind. What I mean by it anyway is that cage aggression is not real and feeding out of their normal enclosure will result in a greater risk of getting bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Egapal

The issue I have with your comments is that you presented them as facts and then when pressed to back them up you pulled way back, and now you are constructing a straw man to argue against. The fact that we are denying your claims that snakes can be conditioned against cage aggression by feeding in tubs does not in anyway mean that they don't get accustomed to being handled by humans or human interaction of any kind. What I mean by it anyway is that cage aggression is not real and feeding out of their normal enclosure will result in a greater risk of getting bit.

---

Both things(being handled and feeding in a separate tub) would leverage the same type of mental capacity for a conditioned behavior. For someone to say that it is completely not possible for one while the other is possible, is a contradiction. Thats my point.

Now as far as how I have backed up a little bit in this discussion and I made a "Straw man" is because it seems this subject has people who live completely on one side or the other and it is a religious crusade. I would prefer to keep things as a friendly exchange of experiences and thoughts then seem as if I am 100% trashing their thoughts and Ideas on the subject.

well You keep feeding your burm outside the cage. Let us know how it is when its 12ft 150+lbs moving it back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

well You keep feeding your burm outside the cage. Let us know how it is when its 12ft 150+lbs moving it back.

---

I no longer have the burm, it was a rescue project. When i got it you couldnt get near the pen with out it going into a feed response and/or defensive attacks. When I had gotten the snake it was about 4 foot and greatly under weight, covered in mites and just flat out wicked. In the time that I had it, I was able to clear up the mites, tame it, and get it back up to weight. My avatar is a picture of it when I started finding a new home for it. I got on a forum and found someone who had several other burms of full adult size and checked out their setup before I gave the snake away to them. I wanted to ensure it was in good hands and not another news story. When all said and done it was doll and was a very educational experience.

Feed in tank or feed in separate container are both a-okay. Just like using plastic tub versus glass/wood tank are both a-okay.

But, just be sure you're not doing it out of misguided intentions. For example, feeding in a separate container to lessen the chance of getting bit is a misguided intention. Or not using plastic tub because it is snake-abuse to house a snake in such a small space is a misguided intention...

There are valid reasons for feeding the snake in a separate container. I feed this way. No, not because I don't want my snakes to get cage aggression. The main reason is, I have one of those "naturalistic looking" vivarium with tons of stuff in there and I feed live rat. If you drop the rat in the vivarium, the rat will have tons of places to hide that the snake will not be able to get to. If I hold the rat's tail with tongs, he poops and pees in the vivarium scared and he can break his tail off. I figured this is too much hassle and unnecessarily mean to the rat. So, I decided to feed in a separate container and use that time either to spot clean the viv or do the complete overhaul clean-up since it has become a routine.

There's really nothing much to feeding in a separate container. Pick up the snake, put him in one corner of the feeding tub, put a rat in the other corner, supervise until the rat is securely coiled, then wait or do stuff like clean out the vivarium, until the snake is done eating (no more squeezing movements), then pick up the snake again and put him in the viv with the least movement needed.

I've been doing that since 2008 without a single mishap. I even did that to a mother who was maternally incubating - she went super aggressive on us while she was brooding on the eggs, so we had to use a towel to uncoil her from her eggs to avoid the strike, feed her in the feeding tub, then put her back on the eggs. No problem. We discontinued this though. It started to get really tiresome trying to not get bit when we take her out of the eggs. So, we just did the "hold the rat by the tail" deals and fed her in her viv.

Now, if I was feeding f/t, I probably won't bother with a separate feeding tub. I can always clean out the viv when the kids are playing with the snake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tcutting

Both things(being handled and feeding in a separate tub) would leverage the same type of mental capacity for a conditioned behavior. For someone to say that it is completely not possible for one while the other is possible, is a contradiction. Thats my point.

Now as far as how I have backed up a little bit in this discussion and I made a "Straw man" is because it seems this subject has people who live completely on one side or the other and it is a religious crusade. I would prefer to keep things as a friendly exchange of experiences and thoughts then seem as if I am 100% trashing their thoughts and Ideas on the subject.

---

As has been said these two things are not utilizing the same mental capacity. Being handled is completely different from being fed. I reject your basic premise.

There is zero difference feeding inside the tub or outside the tub for most. It's honestly just a matter of what you are comfortable with. I've been snapped at by all sorts of snakes, for all sorts of reasons.

For those saying a snake won't bite if you don't smell like rodent - you are extremely bad at observing snake behavior. Clearly a snake could never associate a cage with a possible feeding, or mix up the hand with a possible food item. Fact is- snakes are pretty dumb, and sometimes they seem to screw up, who knows what stimulus does it.

The idea that the snake is aggressive, or cage aggressive because of it is 100% ridiculous, especially if it's only happened once or twice for the animal.

I think it's safe to say that it works well for a lot of snakes but is mostly unneeded for ball pythons. To the OP, I think it would be less stressful for you and the snake to just feed in his enclosure.

well i started to feed in a small box in tank then worked it so she is now eating off tongs, we are waiting for a breeding pair of afs rats then it will still be off tongs, any way good luck with your BP

I feed my snakes in their tubs. but if you do feed outside of the tub then you can gentle pick up your snake after just to put him away. Then no more after that. your snake wont vomit the instant you pick it up or get to stressed for being put into a hide, so no worries.