FWS Files Final Rule/ Constrictor Ban

The truth is knox, there are a lot more responsible "big snake" keepers out there than irresponsible ones. We only hear about the bad stuff because, well lets face it, a successful herper with 1,000 sleeping big snakes just doesn't pull in attention like one really angry one.

Check out the newest episode of snakebytes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlNgc...el_video_title

I love Brian, and he is a great person to have in this hobby. Here are a lot of successfully kept big snakes. You can not tell me after watching this video you still believe these snakes can't be kept as pets? And, can you still say that because of the few people who do it wrong, we should all give up the hobby?

Stratus, believe it or not I have already been swayed :D

There have been some great points in this thread. To be honest, the ones that made the most sense were the appalling way some dogs and cats are kept (I see it all the time on Animal Cops Houston) yet they are not banned by the govt.

Based on the compelling arguments, I think it is hypocritical of the govt. to ban large snakes and not dogs and cats.

Unfortunately, the wrong being done is on the part of the irresponsible owners, not the animals or the people who take great pride and care in their animals.

Thanks! :D

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Originally Posted by knox

Simple Man, being hypocritical and narrow minded goes way beyond owning snakes. We are all guilty of this at many points in our lives. I don't appreciate the personal attack, but I am not offended.

I understand that carrying on a rational, well-thought out debate without stooping to lower levels like over-generalizations like calling me narrow minded and hypocritical is not the easiest thing to do, especially on a forum.

But let's rise above that, shall we?

That being said, I personally don't believe owning a snake that exceeds 15 feet and requires at least 2 people to SAFELY handle it is the best thing for our hobby. Corn Snakes don't escape and eat the neighbor's dog or cat. Ball Pythons don't make the news for nearly killing someone.

I LOVE our hobby. I LOVE snakes. I LOVE freedom. But freedom is NOT free. And allowing EVERYONE to do or own ANYTHING they want is irresponsible.

Could I be wrong? Sure. But so could anyone who disagrees with me.

My views on this are not set in stone. As I said in my first reply, I welcome disagreement and discussion. But let's keep it polite. As responsible, snake owning adults that is not too much to ask...

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I have read exactly as far as the above comment and I feel the need to chime in. Most Americans own a car, cars kill people and the neighbors dog all the time. This is not about safety. This is about the majority ganging up and taking away the rights of the minority. Thats now how we are suppose to do things here in the US. You need to demonstrate a real problem. They can't do that with science so they inflame emotions. Pet giant snakes are not a problem. The science has show it time and time again. There are issues with the sale and importation of the animals but they can all be handled without a ban. Require the animal to be registered and chipped before its sold. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by knox

Stratus, believe it or not I have already been swayed :D

There have been some great points in this thread. To be honest, the ones that made the most sense were the appalling way some dogs and cats are kept (I see it all the time on Animal Cops Houston) yet they are not banned by the govt.

Based on the compelling arguments, I think it is hypocritical of the govt. to ban large snakes and not dogs and cats.

Unfortunately, the wrong being done is on the part of the irresponsible owners, not the animals or the people who take great pride and care in their animals.

Thanks! :D

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You still watched the episode didn't you :please: I can never get me enough snakebytes. Well, except for the strange things that happen at the end with Chewy. :weirdface

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I have yet to see someone on any forum post a pic of their bedroom size enclosure for such a massive snake.

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The thing about this is that, in most cases, you do not need to have a bedroom sized enclosure with running waterfalls and a 12' pond in order to keep a big snake. Many of the older textbooks will tell you this, but nowadays, we have commercially made six foot, and even eight foot cages available on the market, that are designed for big snakes such as the Boaphiles, Visions, Sentec, and even ARS racks.

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Originally Posted by knox

Stratus, believe it or not I have already been swayed :D

There have been some great points in this thread. To be honest, the ones that made the most sense were the appalling way some dogs and cats are kept (I see it all the time on Animal Cops Houston) yet they are not banned by the govt.

Based on the compelling arguments, I think it is hypocritical of the govt. to ban large snakes and not dogs and cats.

Unfortunately, the wrong being done is on the part of the irresponsible owners, not the animals or the people who take great pride and care in their animals.

Thanks! :D

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Glad you were swayed. Most everyone on this forum is going to agree that there are steps that can be taken that would help various issues surrounding keeping the Giants. Banning them is not one of those steps. You can't just take away freedom without a reason. The problem is that the numbers don't show a need for a ban and they are pushing for one anyway. More dangerous animals are easily bought and sold every day (dogs, horses, cows). There are more dangerous wild animals in most states. Public welfare is not the issue. Its not the impact on native flora and fauna either. If it was then it should be a state issue for Florida and surrounding states. Non of the giants will thrive in New York were I live. Cats and dogs do more damage every day than the snakes ever could. Its certainly not about the animal well being. There is a stigma attached to owning snakes. The majority of the population will discourage you from getting a snake and would like nothing more than to kill it. You have to want a snake more than any other animal to deal with the stigma. In contrast people are constantly trying to give you puppies and kittens without any thought to whether or not you can care for one. At the end of the day this is a state issue if anything, not a federal issue. If my state wants me to get a permit to keep my snake I will gladly get one, providing its priced reasonably and not so high as to discourage. As far as my upstairs neighbor keeping venomous snakes. No I don't want that. Its not my right to tell him what he can and cannot keep. I don't want him to have a gun either or a drum set, or a loud stereo. I can move if I want. I should not go out and try to get any of those things banned.

There was nothing related to a personal attack in my post. I didn't question your character or slander you. My opinions were drawn from the words typed on your keyboard. My opinion is that that you were being narrow-minded and hypocritical when you first posted. You might have misunderstood the context in which I called you hypocritical but that might be my issue for not explaining it properly. You are appearing more open minded as the thread develops.

Neither of my assessments of you qualify as overgeneralization. An overgeneralization would be stating those facts about all people that are for banning large constrictors. You use overgeneralizing when you state that you support large snakes being banned (by implying no one can responsibly house or handle these animals). That is an irrational statement because there are many large snake enthusiasts that responsibly own animals. Those people contradict your generalization.

I think it is hypocritical to own snakes and support a ban on snakes. It is a disservice to all snake keepers by supporting a constrictor ban. There are people that would be for banning all species of snakes. In this context it is hypocritical to watch ownership rights dwindle purely on the basis that some snakes are "different". Large constrictors might just be the tip of the iceberg. It would be unfortunate to realize that we could have had something to do with saving our rights as snake keepers but failed only because we looked out for our own specific interests.

In conclusion we should simply hold the people responsible for their own animals. An animal that is kept responsibly isn't a threat. The responsibility inherantly lies within the keeper, not the animal. We must differentiate between responsible and irresponsible owners. People doing illegal or irresponsible things do those things regardless of the laws or regulations. I don't beleve that the majority of people keeping large snakes fall into that category. These people are the ones that will be affected the most under this ban.

Regards,

B

P.S. I am not aiming to offend anyone. I call things like I see them. People love me or hate me usually and I don't care either way. One thing I never do is throw around insults or attack someone's character. I also don't ever hold grudges or opinions. Nice to see your opinion has changed!

I honestly don't mind the need for a license to own animals that pose a life threat to a human being. A dog can inflict a good bite, but typically doesn't kill a person. A lion can eat someone and a full grown Green Anaconda or Retic can kill someone. What I detest, however, is the government dictating it via a ban.
If we had state and local herp organizations that were elected by the community overseeing proper care of big and hot snakes, and they were the ones issuing the permits, I'd be ok with that. A flat ban does nothing to promote responsible ownership. I could respect an industry expert with a ton of experience issuing me a license to own a cobra. I'd probably feel better about it knowing I have conformation that I'm doing the right stuff. It's like when we get certified to ship via Fedex. They inspect our packaging before giving us the green light to ship. They are the shipping experts and we respect them for considering the welfare of the animal and the shipping and ask us to do the same.
Just my 2 cents
Jim

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Originally Posted by jamesa2580

I honestly don't mind the need for a license to own animals that pose a life threat to a human being. A dog can inflict a good bite, but typically doesn't kill a person. A lion can eat someone and a full grown Green Anaconda or Retic can kill someone.

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There are a lot more dog attacks/deaths in the states than snake attacks/deaths. Even if you account that there are a lot more dogs, you could multiply the number of snakes vs attacks, and dogs would still be greater.

We just don't hear about them very much because nobody wants to know how many boxers seriously injure people each year.

1. Yes, I did watch the video. I love all the Snakebytes videos - thanks for the link.

2. Thanks for the clarification, Simple Man. As I said, I may have stated things that were hypocritical, and don't mind being called out when I may be wrong. No harm, no foul. I still believe it takes a special type of owner to properly maintain a an Anaconda or Rock Python. But no more than it takes to own a Mastiff or Rottie. So in that, I agree I came across in a way I didn't intend.

3. So true about cars killing more people and pets than snakes. I don't believe anyone can oppose that with any stretch of rational argument.

Thanks for the replies and opposition. Seriously. I am now a bit more enlightened than when I first posted.





Should I call it a day before I get behind again? :confused: