Out with the old / in with the new. (Sniper Rifle)

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

I'm a lifetime member of the NRA

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Not to jump into ya'lls :groinkick lets see whos bigger competition BUT this is something I would NOT be proud to shout out anymore. They are not and do not represent what they use to be. Was a member for over 15 years then I had my eyes opened a little;) Wouldnt surprise me if you didnt have you 2nd by the end of this term:rofl:

Distance shooting is nice but I stick with the real world and close quarters combat. I'm just fine with my 9mm, 12ga, or 7.62x54r. Yes I did type that right, 7.62x54r.

love the .308s. good luck with her and update us on how she does.

First of all I looked at these weapons back last year, the only reason I passed is that at the time .308 was the largest cal. they were chambered for.

Some pros I noticed

• weight: seemed to be a nice heavy gun made for the bench and not an offhand shot
• action: 60 degree throw on the bolt was a welcome sight

Cons

• Muzzle Break: while reduceing the felt recoil it also decresses the muzzle velocity which in turn alters your bullet drop and spin drift. It also increasses the over pressure felt by to operator so while the recoil is less the shock wave made by the barrel pressure will be greater.
• Largest chamber was a .308; while a good round I was in the market for something else
• width of "Fore grip": while wide and very stable there are some bi pods that don't seat well with this stock

I look forward to seeing how you work with this system to reach your target yardage. Nothing wrong with starting with a good base and building up from there..

If I might make a suggestion, if you don't already invest in a chronograph..Fire 3-5 rounds and figure your drop comp from that velocity. If you're buying off the shelf rounds do this anytime you open a new box, while some rounds are very consistent like Nosler Custom which are hand loaded or Hornady Trophy others like Federal or Winchester can have differences of hundreds of FPS difference between boxes..

P.S.. I like the optics..Target turrets are a good thing to have..

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

Yea try being out on the lake when that happens. Its called chummin ew...:oops:

Sorry for the thread jack.

If I may step in here.....I don't think Jim was at all trying to attack you. I think he was wondering why you chose that paticular gun when there are others out there that might do a better job. And you answered .....its the money...and I totally get that as well as I think Jim does too. I think you both need to be nice to each other and stop saying mean things before I get the chi chick gun out. :rofl: Totally kidding you guys. Just be nice and realize you both have a passion for at least a couple of the same things.

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Sorry, but what I was saying is that he sold an AR because it didn't shoot well enough out to 1000 yards, then he goes out and buys a VTR. A rifle that isn't capable of shooting that distance. He could have spent far less money on the AR and had a better shooing rifle than he will be able to do with the VTR. His first post states that he sold the AR because it wasn't good enough at shooting out to 1000 yards, so he bought a $600 Remington 700 VTR, making us all believe that that was a better 1000 yard shooter than the AR. I call Bull on his story.

How do you build a 1000 yard shooter from a hunting rifle? Build a better trigger? How about $300-$700. Free float the barrel? $100-$300. Even if it can be done. The shape of the barrel tends to make me think it would be difficult. Oh, then you have the barrel. The existing barrel is a hunting barrel, could not be made to work out to 1000 yards. It was never built for that kind of accuracy. Never happen. First the triangle barrel will cool more on the tips of the triangle, never allowing consistant shots. The dimension of the barrel will never allow for consistant shots. Not to mention the built in brake. If he changes the barrel, will he be able to find a barrel maker that can make this type of barrel with the proper twist rate? Maybe, but I bet you it would cost an arm and a leg.

He's got less than $1000 into his new rifle and scope. I'm saying that shooting out to 1000 yards would encompass buying scope which would cost much more than his total cost for his present rifle and scope, not to mention the cost rebuilding of the firearm.

Remember, 1000 yards is a half of a mile PLUS another 360 feet or 120 yards.

He could have bought a Savage 10 fb and had twice the rifle for about the same price. A little polishing of the trigger along with the factory adjustable trigger, he could have had a 1.5 lb trigger with a pretty clean break. The savage already comes with a nice heavy bull barrel, one that shoot out to 600 yards straight out of the box. The barrel is free floated right out of the box too.

For $2000, he could have had a pretty nice 600 yard gun. 1000 yard guns cost much more than that. The scope for a 1000 yard gun cost 3 times what he paid for his entire set up, so what make him think that a $600 gun is going to shoot accurately that far. The physics don't lie. The VTR is in fact a hunting rifle that can be used for target shooting. well so can a Marlin Model 60. So can any rifle, but to claim that it's going to be a 1000 yard shooter is not realistic.

For this gun to be considered a decent 1000 yard shooter, the gun would have to be considered an moa (minute of angle) rifle, which means every shot would land within an than 1 inch of each other for every 100 yards. So at 1000 yards he'd have to get every shot within a 10 inch circle. Agains, that one half mile, PLUS an additonal 360 feet or 120 yards.

Kind of like saying a Piper 182 is your new super sonic airplane or that you can build it to be that fast. or a Wellcraft cuddy is your new off shore speed boat, or that you're going to build it to go that fast.

Sorry for the rantings,
Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Not to jump into ya'lls :groinkick lets see whos bigger competition BUT this is something I would NOT be proud to shout out anymore. They are not and do not represent what they use to be. Was a member for over 15 years then I had my eyes opened a little;) Wouldnt surprise me if you didnt have you 2nd by the end of this term:rofl:

Distance shooting is nice but I stick with the real world and close quarters combat. I'm just fine with my 9mm, 12ga, or 7.62x54r. Yes I did type that right, 7.62x54r.

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How about JPFO? Maybe not as mainstream, but still a cool organization.

Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

For $2000, he could have had a pretty nice 600 yard gun.

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Not saying I dont have firearms in that price range but you would be surprised at what can be done to an out of the box cheapo!!
This was shot with a Marlin V17, all I had to do was float the barrel (just because I like to on a wood stock) but I also polished the trigger, sear, and bolt.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...2-10154042.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...2-10154052.jpg

Yes, that is a V17.....................17 Mach 2, one with Remington Premier and the other with Hornady. The 17 mach is a necked down 22 long rifle with only a 17 grain ballistic tip.
These were at 500 yards, in a canyon, on a day with no wind and high heat. It did take me about 10 rounds with 6 spotters to get my elevation right:oops:
Wanted to try for 600 but I couldnt get the elevation right and gave up.
Also have a Rossi Gallery 22lr that I can stack at 100 yards on iron sights.
Sure with I still had that deer lease, I love just going out to shoot but everything around here is 100yd so now I stick with the real world (crazy in my head) defense shooting. Close enough to look the intruder in the eye.:rolleye2:

I will be building a .308 Vanguard as soon as I can get the funding to do so because I have always wanted a Weatherby. I only have about $350.00 in the Marlin total, including the varmint scope.

Dont forget to count the holes, the mag holds 7;) and they are all paper:gj:

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Originally Posted by Darkice

Some info on the standard off the shelf 308 federal.

308, Federal GM308M, 168 gr., 2600 ft/s, 4988 yards, 81 ft-lbs

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The ammo is by far the least of the equation. Custom made ammo is still only as good as the rifle and the person squeezing the trigger.

Your facts listed does not assume the round will be aimed and shot at a target. This is the effective range. How far it will go down range before gravity acts on the bullet to pull it to the gound. Plus we're talking about the round and not the rifle. BIG difference.

Okay, maybe you won't listen to me, but how about a group of long range shooters that do this kind of stuff every weekend.

http://www.snipercentral.com/308.htm

How about 230 inches of bullet drop when using the current US military sniper ammo-M118? That's almost 20 feet of bullet drop.

More so, 108 inches of wind drift with a 10 mile per hour breeze using the same ammo listed above. That's 9 feet of drift.

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So what your saying is that a round that normally goes about 5000 yards on its own nobody in the world can hit a target at only 1000 yards?

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Where did I say that no one could shoot that distance? Sure it can be done (albeit from a very small percentage of the worlds population)

But imagine, they're using a custom rifle, not a Remington VTR. They started with a much more expensive rifle, put thousands of dollars into the rifle with upgrades and custom parts. Added a $2500-$3500 scope. Then the shooter himself has to do their part, shoot under MOA. They train for months at a time and shoots these distance for years with a rifle that if bought in the real world would proably cost $10k.

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And one of your questions was about competition shooting. I have only shot the 50 in competitions. And that was at 1000 yards.

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Where and when would you shoot a 50 bmg in a competition while in the military?
The only place I know of is at the Top Sniper competitions, then you would have to be a qualified sniper and I know that's not true by your selection of the VTR.

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I just don't understand why you have to attack me because i'm building a 1000 yard gun out of a VTR.

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I'm not attacking you first off. I'm calling you out on your first post where you say that the AR wasn't good enough for you to shoot out to 1000 yards, so you go out and buy a Remington VTR. You indicate that this is your new 1000 yard shooter, you didn't say that this was the platform to build your new 1000 yard shooter. Neither of your guns are capable of hitting cloth out at 1000 yards accurately, particluarly with the glass you have mounted on either of the firearms. You probably couldn't see the target at 1000 yards with either scope.

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Just because it's not the gun you would have chosen because your overburdened with money doesn't mean it wont work. I say it will and i'm willing to prove it

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This statement is tends to make me think that you've never shot anything at 1000 yards. I can build a skateboard to break the sound barrier at Bonneville too. Just because I say I can, doesn't make it a true fact. Your rifle is incapable of shooting out to 1000 yards accurately.

If you don't mind, tell me what parts you're going to use and what modifications your going to do?

If you could, tell me what scope you have on this rifle at this present time?
Also which scope will you be installing on this rifle to make it a 1000 yard shooter?

When your wife gives you permission to buy a real target rifle, at least start out with a Savage 10fb. Oh wait, you could have bought that rifle instead of the VTR. Never mind!

Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Dont forget to count the holes, the mag holds 7;) and they are all paper:gj:

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But you're not claiming an out of the box VTR is capable of shooting 1000 yards accuartely. If you know firearms, you'll realize what it takes to shoot out to 1000 yards. I've shot a properly prepped Garand out to 600 yards, but that was for fun and we were happy just to hit cloth.

BTW, good shooting.
Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

But you're not claiming an out of the box VTR is capable of shooting 1000 yards accuartely.

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I believe he said he is gonna be building it to a 1k shooter.
I wouldnt try to pull distance with any auto OR ported barrel.
Though, I bet I could make that thing shoot sub 6" at 1k
Also bet I could do it for under a grand, though I would have to use my own optics and it nice to not have to pay anyone for my smithing, just gotta buy myself a bottle of booze LOL