What is every base morph and which lay on the same allele?

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

I tend to disagree with having the Mystic and the Phantom listed in the BEL complex. Is there a supper Platty(Daddy)? Platty Daddy is not the same as Lessor.
To my knowledge they do not make a BEL when bred together to create a Homo form.

Spector/Whirlwind are the same morph.
Goblin/Yellow Belly and I think Orange Belly are the same morph


Het Red/ Green Pastel/ Lace Back Back are the same morph

Pinstripe/Spider/Woma are Dominant morphs. Have never seen proof of a Homo of either one.

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you literally cannot disagree with this. they are on the loci therefore they are part of that complex, simple as that. yes they dont react in quite the same way as the others or as expected, but they are still part of the complex. unless you can show me a mojave mystic lesser ;)

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

yea the hidden gene woma's homozygous form is the pearl, plain womas have not had a proven homozygous form yet as far as I know. You might as well consider them separate genes.

the homozygous pin just look like a normal pinstripe, just when you breed it every baby is a pin.

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im fairly sure i had seen an episode of snakebytes where brian said they had a proven homozygous woma, or maybe im imagining it

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Originally Posted by BAMReptiles

im fairly sure i had seen an episode of snakebytes where brian said they had a proven homozygous woma, or maybe im imagining it

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I've watched every episode and don't remember him claiming to prove anything homozygous, i don't think hes even mentioned proving his pinstripes on the show. lemme know what episode tho if im wrong.

ive seen em all too, so i couldnt even begin to tell you which one i "think" it might be lol. maybe email him?

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Originally Posted by BAMReptiles

you literally cannot disagree with this. they are on the loci therefore they are part of that complex, simple as that. yes they dont react in quite the same way as the others or as expected, but they are still part of the complex. unless you can show me a mojave mystic lesser ;)

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I literally can disagree with this. They do not produce BEL's when bred to the same morph. Now we are all entitled to our own beliefs. Based on what I understand of genetics, this is what I believe until I can be shown otherwise. Allot of the genetics "Known" or understood about ball pythons is fairly inaccurate.
What we refer to as Dominant and Codominant genes is not entirely true.

yellow belly and specter are same allele

yellow belly and het highway are same allele

so specter and het highway are same allele too, right?

het highway and specter are complete dominant .

I doubt what happen for het highway x specter ?

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

I literally can disagree with this. They do not produce BEL's when bred to the same morph. Now we are all entitled to our own beliefs. Based on what I understand of genetics, this is what I believe until I can be shown otherwise. Allot of the genetics "Known" or understood about ball pythons is fairly inaccurate.
What we refer to as Dominant and Codominant genes is not entirely true.

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You -- and anyone else -- literally CAN disagree with literally anything! I disagree with a lot of things, including some things that are well-established as "fact!"

... However, in this case Tessada I would disagree with your disagreement :)

When we say "BEL complex" we're not talking about all alleles that make a leucistic snake in homozygous form. We're talking about alleles that lie on a given locus. Because so many alleles on that locus DO make a leucistic in homozygous form, and they all have blue eyes, the locus has been colloquially dubbed the "BEL locus" and those alleles that lie on that locus members of the "BEL complex." However, this is somewhat of a misnomer as clearly a number of alleles on this locus do NOT produce a leucistic in homozygous form -- not just the "daddy" gene.

(The "super special," for example, has pattern as well.)

The "daddy" gene has been pretty much "proven" by Ralph to be on this locus, at least as well as it's going to be proven, and at least based on everything I have read. If you take a platty daddy and breed him to a normal, you will get lessers and snakes that look like normals, but you never ever ever ever get more platty daddies. (That is, unless the "normal" happened to be a het "daddy.") If the daddy gene was on a separate gene locus from the lesser gene, you should be able to get platty daddies by breeding a platty daddy to a normal, like with bumblebees, pewters, etc..

Ralph and others then found that it was possible to get more platties only by breeding a lesser, or butter, etc., to a normal-appearing lesser sibling out of a platinum parent.

This all doesn't mean for certain that the "daddy" gene is an allele on the (so-called) BEL locus. I think it would also be possible for it to be very tightly linked to that locus with a wild-type allele sitting on it, such that it was essentially impossible to get another BEL complex allele, plus the daddy gene, on the same chromosome.

However, we're never going to prove these things definitively (at least, not until gene sequencing becomes as cheap as my friend thinks it's going to in the next 10 years ...! :O), and calling it part of the BEL allele complex is as good a working hypothesis as any, adequately explaining the breeding results, so I'm going to continue to fly with it.

You're welcome to continue to disagree though -- as I said, I disagree with a lot of things ..! :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by _QIN_

yellow belly and specter are same allele

yellow belly and het highway are same allele

so specter and het highway are same allele too, right?

het highway and specter are complete dominant .

I doubt what happen for het highway x specter ?

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yes spector and het highway are on the same allele, tho I don't know of anyone who has bred these yet, their both fairly new morphs. i don't understand ur 2nd question?

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

You -- and anyone else -- literally CAN disagree with literally anything! I disagree with a lot of things, including some things that are well-established as "fact!"

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I laughed at the well-established "facts" part, makes 2 of us.

rest of it very well written. i agree with all of it.

Tessadas, its not that im saying they all make BEL, because obviously they don't, its just a name given to a complex, not everything in the superstripe complex makes superstripes either. I've herd of the BEL and BlkEL complex called that before, so that why I used it, do you think theres a more fitting name for em?

I understand what you are saying. Its just that when the majority of people start looking at things or believing things to be one way and then you find out its otherwise, it makes changing it to the right way that much harder. Look at Hypo/Ghost, they are Hypos not Ghosts.
Calling a snake that does not produce an all white snake with blue eyes a BEL is confusing to other people. It isn't a BEL but yet people are referring to them as BEL's because a few breeders say they are so. If we had the facts to prove so then fine but just saying it is so doesn't make it so.

Partial sequencing is around $500 now with a 20k price tag for a full genome sequencing. That 20k is a drop from 40k last year. Within the next couple of years full sequencing is expected to be about 1k. This is also pricing for humans.

Would "platy complex" be a better name since that was the first known combo of alleles in this complex?