Breeding normals?

WingedWolfPsion I really think u make some good points. I have to say it does matter what u have in your local area ect. Here in my area there seems to be a lot of free snakes. In fact I have personally taken in quite a few. From a few burms to a handful of ball pythons, rat snakes..The list goes on. Just yesterday someone put on our local craigslist a free rainbow boa.
So maybe it’s the areas.. Also I think the economy right now is tough too and so I don’t disagree with careful selecting who and what u breed.

I think this is a great thread... not sure why many people jumped on Theo for starting the thread and seeing what people think.
FIEND_FO_LYFE - kudos to u for starting the thread I have really enjoyed learning others point of views on the subject even though some have given u a hard time. I thank u!

Another scenario... Guy new to snakes falls for a pet store normal. Takes it home. Starts researching BPs online and at the shows. Realizes he has a 'lame normal, and the 'cool guys' all have morphs. He falls for the hype and now his normal is disposeable and he turns into a morph collector.

Given the popularity of recessives in particular, I'm worried that in a few more generations of pied-to-pied breeding we're going wind up with some pretty inbred animals. Normal-to-normal breedings mean that we'll have still have access to a decent genetic diversity that we can use for outcrossing when our dreamsicles start laying only slugs.

I would have to say I think that breeding normal to normal is fine. I have never bred normal to normal. All of my breedings have been at least co-dom to normal. I do have some dinkers that are siblings I plan on breeding just to see if something comes out of the pairing. If they produce all normals then I guess I will have bred normal to normal...LOL

As for the general ball python community I think it is fine and has several benefits.
It would help Reduce the market dependency on imports. I know that Co-dom to normal will still produce a percentage of normals but if we were producing enough normals then why continue importing mass numbers of normals from Africa? I do know that for some profit minded people the Cost of cheap imports they can turn and wholesale compared to the higher price of Captive Bred will always be a factor.

Breeding Normal to Normal can be good breeding experience for 1st time breeders who don't want to invest in a morph/morphs to try their hands at breeding.

With Captive bred normals the possible issues with Shipping Stress, Parasites, ect. are not as much of a concern.

I do not think that completely stopping importation should happen. It would be nice to still be able to get new genetic mutations brought in from Africa. Also I would not want a general law to stop importation of farmed or wild caught animals to stop our ability to import quality Captive bred animals from other countries (Canada, European countries, ect.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FIEND_FO_LYFE

Does it bug you when you hear of people breeding normals?
My personal though is, there are too many normals in the world, and we should try to limit getting more. Not saying we should put them down, but instead of norm x norm breeding, do norm to pastel.

Whats everyone's opinion?

---

Kind of hypocritical. Almost every dom co-dom pairing you do you will get a normal. No way around it and some normals have the best patterns ive seen.

To say normals are to be stopped being bred would in turn put pastels next in line, then spiders and so on. it would be a never ending cycle of knocking off the weakest link. Breed what you want to what you want.

I dont care if its a normal or albino, but either way i get excited to see them piping out of the eggs.

normal
dont forget it started all with normal
and sorry but 20-30k for a new morph
its just sick
ok ik ont have the money
but i dont spend 30k on a new morph
and i dont want it
i like dark choco sable black back
but a banana hidden gen woma for 20k
nooooooooooooooooo
what the hells with just a normal

I actually think a lot of the morph breeding has led to ignoring what may be more important traits in these snakes. I'm talking about temperament, feeding consistency, etc.

The 'basic chassis' has fallen by the wayside while people enthuse over the 'paint jobs', as it were. ;)

Why settle for a high-end morph that eats mice every 3rd Tuesday when the wind is blowing, and bites you when you change her water bowl? People are throwing their morphs with any old normal female they can find--and even if they select good ones, that's still just one generation of 'good', and you have no idea what's lurking in that animal's lineage. The only way to fix that in the long run is to produce lines of good normals, and keep better track of the lineages of the normals that are produced from morph breedings.

The issue of too many normals is not solvable plain and simple. The only way to make any headway on it is to accept with open arms all the laws that restrict there import, and interstate trafficking as well as enforcing ridiculous laws regarding the breeding and sale of the animals. Lets break the problem down.

Normal Ball Pythons are cheap and so people buy them with little thought. Since we can't make people smarter the only solution is for Normal Ball Pythons to be more expensive.

The only think that will make Normals more expensive is to increase their demand or decrease their supply. Since increasing their demand will not fix the original problem of people buying them without thinking we need to decrease their supply.

No we come back to the original post of the OP should we discourage breeding of normal to normal. And the answer is. It doesn't matter. If we breed less normals then more normals will be imported.

Ok so maybe the answer as has been suggested is to breed more normals because then we can push out the importers. Nope that won't work either. The people importing BP's are making a huge profit and can afford to under cut local breeders. The price that we pay for Normals at big pet stores is not set by the cost of the snake. Its set by the highest price they can charge and still sell all the snakes they catch or hatch. So if the market is flooded with locally bred normals then the importers will drop prices and still make a great profit only making the problem worse.

So if anyone sees any flaws in my argument I would love to hear them but the way I see it. The problem is something that can't be solved. Its like wanting everyone to be rich. Its just not possible. The best we can hope for is to keep the problem from getting too bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by f4n70m

Reading through this. My question is if we stopped breeding normals. That means you would have to spend more for your bp. But how many people here started off with normals? Im sure alot of people would stray away if they had to spend alot more on a morph due to lack of normals. I bet most people started with normals.

---

Yep... I spent $50 on my first BP, a normal, and wouldn't have spent much more! I was awed by the gorgeous albino they had, but wasn't about to drop $800 (or whatever they were charging) on my first snake - not even knowing yet if I'd enjoy owning one. :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wafisherman

Another scenario... Guy new to snakes falls for a pet store normal. Takes it home. Starts researching BPs online and at the shows. Realizes he has a 'lame normal, and the 'cool guys' all have morphs. He falls for the hype and now his normal is disposeable and he turns into a morph collector.

---

I went through that exact process of thought, except for one thing... I still love my first snake, and the other two normals I've gotten since. NO animal/snake is disposable to me, and hopefully others here would agree. :gj: Even if I did decide I no longer needed normals, I'd be considerate enough to find them a good new home.