spider x spider

i just told u i got off of the phone with one of the biggest reptile breeders in the us, and even he said he doesnt even know.

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Originally Posted by JayCee

Do you assume the big breeders in the industry are complete morons and never thought to try and prove out the Spider gene ?? Do you assume the first to dabble into the Spider gene weren't in a race to try and create the first "Super Spider" ?? Do you assume these same breeders only bred 1 male spider to 1 female spider, didn't hit the Super and just gave up ??


Now, to try and step into the shoes of a "big breeder". I'd get a chuckle out of all the newcomers trying to reinvent the wheel. At best, it even helps sales of Spiders. Every 2-3 months there is a new thread on "super spider" and a handful that refuse to believe it until they do 100 Spider X Spider pairings themselves. I'll happily sell them as many Spiders as they want.

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I'll just add my .02 and a question. The question is: Have there been any wild caught spiders since the first ones? I hear of every other morph coming in WC occasionally but never spiders.

I think if spiders are co-dom then the reason we can't get supers from them could have something to do with whatever genes make them spin. I haven't heard anyone bring that up but it seems plausible to me. Once I get to the point where I can spare the space I definitely want to try my hand at a super spider unless its proven to not exist by that time

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Originally Posted by AaronP

That...is a contradiction.

We're not doing a Trial by Jury, juries can be wrong, we're talking cold hard facts.

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No, it isn't. I used "make" in that sentence as "turn from falsity into truth." Your definition from MW is basically what I'm trying to get across. I used the jury example because of the phrase, "Innocent until proven guilty." I admit, it is a loose definition of "proven," and it's a rather poor example.

Here's a better one: I wore a coat today. Now, I have no proof that I wore a coat today, but just because I don't have proof doesn't mean I didn't wear a coat today.

I figure I should also mention that I am a scientist, so for me, "facts" are merely tautologies.

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Originally Posted by JayCee

Do you assume the big breeders in the industry are complete morons and never thought to try and prove out the Spider gene ?? Do you assume the first to dabble into the Spider gene weren't in a race to try and create the first "Super Spider" ?? Do you assume these same breeders only bred 1 male spider to 1 female spider, didn't hit the Super and just gave up ??

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No, I don't. However, I find it odd that no one seems willing to come forward with any hard evidence of what the Spider gene really is. All we hear about is "so-and-so said this" or "I heard that...." I have yet to see a breeder who has tried the Spider x Spider thing for several years come forward with quantitative results.

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Originally Posted by HeartAche

I'll just add my .02 and a question. The question is: Have there been any wild caught spiders since the first ones? I hear of every other morph coming in WC occasionally but never spiders.

I think if spiders are co-dom then the reason we can't get supers from them could have something to do with whatever genes make them spin. I haven't heard anyone bring that up but it seems plausible to me. Once I get to the point where I can spare the space I definitely want to try my hand at a super spider unless its proven to not exist by that time

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Actually a lot of morphs haven't been brought in again. We haven't seen another Pinstripe, we haven't seen another Desert, we haven't seen more Black Axanthics, or Leopards. But time will tell.

Hmm, I've never considered that before....

The only morph I know of right off the top of my head that has several variants is Axanthic, and those aren't even compatible with each other...so...they can be even be considered the same morph?

Does anyone know if there has been more than one of a certain type of [compatible] morph found in the wild?

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Originally Posted by Eventide

Hmm, I've never considered that before....

The only morph I know of right off the top of my head that has several variants is Axanthic, and those aren't even compatible with each other...so...they can be even be considered the same morph?

Does anyone know if there has been more than one of a certain type of [compatible] morph found in the wild?

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Actually the VPI and the NERD Line of Axanthics are compatible and I believe there are others.

Morphs with multiple Lines:
Piebald
Albino
Axanthic
Cinnamon
Black Pastel
Woma
Clown
Lavender Albino
Pastel
Hypo (There are TONS of linese of these)
Yellow Belly
Lesser/Butter (I know there are multiple lines of Lesser, I think there are Butter)
I think Mojave
Phantom/Mystic
Fire

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Actually a lot of morphs haven't been brought in again. We haven't seen another Pinstripe, we haven't seen another Desert, we haven't seen more Black Axanthics, or Leopards. But time will tell.

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Outside of this conversation, who is breeding the leopards? I saw JK just got one but haven't seen them for sale anywhere?

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Originally Posted by WildCreations

Outside of this conversation, who is breeding the leopards? I saw JK just got one but haven't seen them for sale anywhere?

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Greg Graziani

i dont think it would be leathal at all, just think about it the only difference between one ball python to the next is there skin, other than that there completly the same. so yes a spider has different genetics compared to a normal, but they are still the same.

And would a spider and a spider be a pin? not sure just wondering, dont know that much about the ball pythons

Skin color is the only difference we can see, but the genetics in the different morphs no doubt produce other differences. In development, melanocytes -- cells that produce melanin -- are derived from a special group of cells that also contribute to the nervous system, intestinal and facial development. If we mess around with the genes responsible for those cells, we are messing around with more than skin color, even if we don't know it.

For example, in horses there is something called "lethal white foal syndrome." These are foals that are all white, because they don't have melanocytes. However, they don't live very long because in addition to lacking melanocytes, they are missing cells essential to normal intestinal function.