Views on keeping more than one bp in an enclosure

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Are you sure about this?

Snakes seen as cuddling are likely to be sharing a prime thermoregulation or hide spot.

I have yet to see a study or witness actual behavior in which this is a case of one snake "dominating" the other.

Seriously - I've seen this behavior off and on for years. My bt cribo pair does it and they've been together for years. They eat, shed, crap, and make whoopee just fine. I'm just wondering where someone saw two snakes coiling together and ASSumed that it was some sort of dominance display.

Again - if you can drudge up a study or something based in fact that proves that this is a dominance display, I'll cheerfully agree with you.

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She wrote a book on keeping ball pythons, she MUST know what she's talking about.....

:weirdface

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Are you sure about this?

Snakes seen as cuddling are likely to be sharing a prime thermoregulation or hide spot.

I have yet to see a study or witness actual behavior in which this is a case of one snake "dominating" the other.

Seriously - I've seen this behavior off and on for years. My bt cribo pair does it and they've been together for years. They eat, shed, crap, and make whoopee just fine. I'm just wondering where someone saw two snakes coiling together and ASSumed that it was some sort of dominance display.

Again - if you can drudge up a study or something based in fact that proves that this is a dominance display, I'll cheerfully agree with you.

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This is what I've heard it referred to as MANY times,especially on this forum (dominance) if it is actually competition (and i will do more research on that) I'll change it, for now I'll add to the canned reply. Thank you for the clarification.

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Originally Posted by Buttons

She wrote a book on keeping ball pythons, she MUST know what she's talking about.....

:weirdface

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There is always room for improvement. :)

How do all the people here that say they should not be keep together and are not sociable deal with the fact that there are a lot of articles and stories of many balls being found in the same burrows. I saw one the other day talking about a female with eggs and a hand full of males all in the same hole.

i dont do it because:
then i dont have to separate them to feed

i can keep track of a snake that is not drinking

if one should happen to regurge i only have to worry about one snake and not which one was it.

so i dont have poo smeared everywhere

so if i have a runny poo in there i know what snake it came from

i really have many reasons, you guys do what you want im going to keep mine separate.

I see that there are good points to keeping them separate. I just dont under stand the people that say "you should not do this because, it stresses the snake, cannibalism....." Does any one really know how many cases there have been of cannibalism in a captive setting where both snakes where being feed well? I bet there are more cases of them found living together in the wild then there are of them eating each other in captivity.

Like some one said in an other post the OP asked for views on keeping them together. I think if care is taken in setting things up right it is really up the the owner. If you find some runny poo but one in a QT and see which one is sick. Keeping them together is prob more work, but is some one is willing to put in the time to make a nice home I say more power to them. I think that is better then the people who put them in a tube with paper bedding because it is easier for the owner. My snakes will have plenty of places to hide and plenty of places to crawl around if they please and they will be in the same display tank. I also plan on having a QT standing by if I need it.

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Originally Posted by ckwatson

I see that there are good points to keeping them separate. I just dont under stand the people that say "you should not do this because, it stresses the snake, cannibalism....." Does any one really know how many cases there have been of cannibalism in a captive setting where both snakes where being feed well? I bet there are more cases of them found living together in the wild then there are of them eating each other in captivity.

Like some one said in an other post the OP asked for views on keeping them together. I think if care is taken in setting things up right it is really up the the owner. If you find some runny poo but one in a QT and see which one is sick. Keeping them together is prob more work, but is some one is willing to put in the time to make a nice home I say more power to them. I think that is better then the people who put them in a tube with paper bedding because it is easier for the owner. My snakes will have plenty of places to hide and plenty of places to crawl around if they please and they will be in the same display tank. I also plan on having a QT standing by if I need it.

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you will not find many reports of cannibalism heck many ppl dont even take their snakes to a vet if something is wrong with them.
just because multiple snakes are found in in the same burrow does not mean they went there because of the other snakes. perhaps the place in the burrow is the only place that has the correct temps and humidity for those animals. not to mention that alot of the videos you see are taken during breeding season.

Qt after the fact does not mean that the other one does not have something wrong with it also.
ppl use tubs because its the easier to keep, clean, saves on space. there is many reasons really. are you sure your snakes want to travel around? are you sure they dont prefer to be alone? are you sure they are not fighting for the same heat zone?

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Why do you keep making comparisons that have nothing to do with keeping more than one snake in an enclosure?

You've covered underage pregnancy, undercooked pork, horse sex, dog sex, drinking from streams and unprotected sex.................

The OP asked for opinions. He got a bunch of opinions - many backed up with crap and BS. Those opinions have been reacted to. Deal with it.

The point is, people cohabitate snakes (even ball pythons) all the time. Some people do it right and some people do it wrong. It's not impossible to do it and it should not be considered a husbandry no-no if done correctly.

Regurgitated advice is just that - puke. Opinions based on experience or fact hold value.

I'll agree with one thing you said - your experience in this matter is not a foundation for good advice.

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See what I am doing there is called an analogy. People sometimes use them when the people they are talking to are not understanding the concepts being presented. For instance you seam to know quite a lot about BP husbandry but seam to be missing my point.

Besides, I figured everyone else was doing it why not me. My comparisons to all of the above are about as relevent to the conversation as all the "well they do it in the wild posts." I never said that its impossible to do it, or that its considered a husbandry no-no and for that matter most people aren't saying that. You are hearing that. What I and many others are saying is that there are negative consequences that should be considered. I think its irresponsible for people to gloss over the difficulties. You keep saying things like "its fine if done correctly." Well lots of things are fine if done correctly, that doesn't mean we should recommend it. I could be wrong hear but I don't think the OP wanted to start a war. So skiploder, what are your thoughts on housing BP's together and more specifically what advice would you give our OP.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

See what I am doing there is called an analogy. People sometimes use them when the people they are talking to are not understanding the concepts being presented. For instance you seam to know quite a lot about BP husbandry but seam to be missing my point.

Besides, I figured everyone else was doing it why not me. My comparisons to all of the above are about as relevent to the conversation as all the "well they do it in the wild posts." I never said that its impossible to do it, or that its considered a husbandry no-no and for that matter most people aren't saying that. You are hearing that. What I and many others are saying is that there are negative consequences that should be considered. I think its irresponsible for people to gloss over the difficulties. You keep saying things like "its fine if done correctly." Well lots of things are fine if done correctly, that doesn't mean we should recommend it. I could be wrong hear but I don't think the OP wanted to start a war. So skiploder, what are your thoughts on housing BP's together and more specifically what advice would you give our OP.

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When did any of this become about you? Do you seriously think that you're the only person on this forum that is taking part in this debate?

All I'm hearing is that there are people chiming in here that are claiming you can't or shouldn't do something that not only is commonly done, but successfully done to boot.

If the OP wants my advice, he can ask for it. In the meantime, all your babbling still doesn't change one fundamental fact - the fact we're all debating here:

You CAN keep more than one snake in an enclosure.

Just because someone hasn't done it, or hasn't been exposed to it doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be done.

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Originally Posted by ckwatson

I see that there are good points to keeping them separate. I just don't under stand the people that say "you should not do this because, it stresses the snake, cannibalism....." Does any one really know how many cases there have been of cannibalism in a captive setting where both snakes where being feed well? I bet there are more cases of them found living together in the wild then there are of them eating each other in captivity.

Like some one said in an other post the OP asked for views on keeping them together. I think if care is taken in setting things up right it is really up the the owner. If you find some runny poo but one in a QT and see which one is sick. Keeping them together is prob more work, but is some one is willing to put in the time to make a nice home I say more power to them. I think that is better then the people who put them in a tube with paper bedding because it is easier for the owner. My snakes will have plenty of places to hide and plenty of places to crawl around if they please and they will be in the same display tank. I also plan on having a QT standing by if I need it.

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This a very good point, especially with the video we just seen. However, we have to remember, our snakes are not in the wild. They don't have the option of when they are tired of their buddy, to leave. We honestly don't know enough about the subject to go either way. Maybe they only stay with others during breeding season. There are just too many "ifs" involved to make any solid statement.

That's why i do what i know. I know when kept separate it's easier to notice illnesses, clean, as well as feed (for those of us who wish not to disturb the snake during feeding process).

Until anyone can show me how the snake (not us) gains an advantage over having a cage partner, separate is how I feel it should be done. Of course, I'm just as stubborn as the rest of you, and refuse to do it differently :P.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

When did any of this become about you? Do you seriously think that you're the only person on this forum that is taking part in this debate?

All I'm hearing is that there are people chiming in here that are claiming you can't or shouldn't do something that not only is commonly done, but successfully done to boot.

If the OP wants my advice, he can ask for it. In the meantime, all your babbling still doesn't change one fundamental fact - the fact we're all debating here:

You CAN keep more than one snake in an enclosure.

Just because someone hasn't done it, or hasn't been exposed to it doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be done.

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Are you kidding me. Non of this is about me. The OP asked for your opinion. Lets me be really clear. I agree, You CAN keep more than one snake in an enclosure. You can do it successfully. The OP asked for your opinion on the practice. All my babbling as you called it, is related to my opinion on the practice.