Are ball pythons a domesticated species?

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Originally Posted by EvesFriend

I don't consider them domesticated either. Neither are my parents.

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Jokes aside , domestication in humans happened in past, Selective breeding in humans to be exact, wich is now called Eugenics.

I said No also.

Though domestication is an exploitable feature to an animal. It doesn't mean snakes aren't of use say like to wiccans and witches and the sort. They are considered to be the most powerful magick of all the animal energies. And if you have the link to their power, which not all practioners of the occult have, you have a definite leg up so to speak.

So you wouldn't really want any snake domesticated or shall I say dumbed down to human levels.......

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Originally Posted by Arsinoe

I said No also.

Though domestication is an exploitable feature to an animal. It doesn't mean snakes aren't of use say like to wiccans and witches and the sort. They are considered to be the most powerful magick of all the animal energies. And if you have the link to their power, which not all practioners of the occult have, you have a definite leg up so to speak.

So you wouldn't really want any snake domesticated or shall I say dumbed down to human levels.......

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I don't want to sound sarcastic or anything as I respect everyone's posts...but you just lost me here. Exactly what "link" and "power" are you refering to? Of all the years of having snakes, I'm unfamiliar with this.

Mods, feel free to delete this posting as I realize it's probably goin' to get waaay off topic from the OP.

Hi,

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Originally Posted by Arsinoe

They are considered to be the most powerful magick of all the animal energies...

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Historically this is simply untrue.

If you didn't make it up on the spot then your information is coming from some seriously misinformed places - probably some gardnerian drivel.


dr del

Lets just hope that blood sacrafice's are not required from the snake to acquire this "magic"

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Originally Posted by Egapal

All of this may be true but it may not be true. The problem with saying definitely one way or the other is that all we have to go on is fossils and modern genetics, fossils don't tell us much about how DOMESTICATED a species was or wasn't and the genetic record is muddied by thousands of years of selective breeding.

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While true, we do have cave paintings and descriptions, so that's something. We can also see how dogs are treated in traditional cultures, and that reveals a lot about how they evolved. Dingos, Carolina Dogs, and Whistling Dogs do give us a lot of clues too, though.

Dogs are Canis lupus. They're not a mix of other species, they are a subspecies of Canis lupus, and they have been reclassified as such. Grey wolves have the greatest distribution of any canid species, so it's not very surprising.

Arsinoe, your definitions on witchcraft and Wicca are mistaken, and you need to go back to the sources of these words, not rely on translations and approximations (or something someone told you one time). While true that snakes have long been objects of magickal significance in many cultures, this has absolutely 0 to do with domestication (or not) so is not relevant to this thread. A domesticated snake would be no less symbolically significant than a wild one. In fact, I can think of ways in which it would be better.

I hope that ball pythons will become domesticated, and plan to work on temperament breeding myself.

Based on the description of a domesticated species which was posted on the first page of this thread I would say no. However to not all "domesticated" dogs or cats for that matter meet the criteria stated either. With that said, does it have to be the entire species that is domesticated or individuals? And back to the description posted. If those criteria are all must haves, then snakes (at least ball pythons) will never be considered so as #1 and #6 simply are not going to happen. They eat rodents not prepared meals and the are solitary animals. I personally (as much as I like them) don't see the mental capacity necessary to be pack animals.

With all that said, as far as snakes go, I think ball pythons are as close to domesticated as snakes will get.

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Originally Posted by DarkSmoke

Jokes aside , domestication in humans happened in past, Selective breeding in humans to be exact, wich is now called Eugenics.

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I think you're mistaken on that. Eugenics is the involuntary sterilization of people, historically mostly of POC and impoverished people. You can't "selectively breed" people who can't have babies.

No, bps are not domesticated. They interact with us, because they have not been given a choice, They no , no other way to live, they depend on us for everything,but if given a choice and an open cage door, off they'll go. Now about the dog that will turn on its owner. I have worked with dogs all my life. A vet tech, a shower and breeder of champion bloodhounds, and a trainer. I have never seen a dog turn without provocation, 90% of the time its bad owners. The rest of the time its due to pain or illness. The reason so many breeds get bad reps. is due to bad owners. No socialization, or neglect. Sorry for the rant, but this is my hot button. I have seen more sweet pit bulls, then heard of the bad ones.

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Originally Posted by blue roses

No, bps are not domesticated. They interact with us, because they have not been given a choice, They no , no other way to live, they depend on us for everything,but if given a choice and an open cage door, off they'll go. Now about the dog that will turn on its owner. I have worked with dogs all my life. A vet tech, a shower and breeder of champion bloodhounds, and a trainer. I have never seen a dog turn without provocation, 90% of the time its bad owners. The rest of the time its due to pain or illness. The reason so many breeds get bad reps. is due to bad owners. No socialization, or neglect. Sorry for the rant, but this is my hot button. I have seen more sweet pit bulls, then heard of the bad ones.

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I agree 100%. Dogs behavior is very much a product of their enviroment. With that said, dogs are intelligent, free thinking animals that experience hormonal changes, pain, distress etc. This makes it possible for even the best trained animal to have a bad day. Some breeds are just more capable of inflicting serious harm when this occurs.

Case in point, I have a 6 month old south african boerboel. We have had him since he was a puppy. He has been in puppy classes, has been socialized, and has been treated like the loved family dog he is. Never any abuse what so ever, plenty of positive interaction and energy. Since he was 6 weeks old he has been fed by hand and handled while eating to avoid and food agression issues.

Yesterday while eating my 8 year old daughter brushed past him and he grabbed her leg. Not hard enough to break the skin but enough to startle both of them. When she screamed he immediately let go, sat down next to her and began liking her leg where he grabbed her.

We still have not figured out what caused it as he has never shown any aggressive behavior toward dogs or people up till this point. Since the incident he has still acted as his usual happy puppy self. Fortunately at 6 months he is only 70 lbs, had this been later in life it could have been much worse.

If your ball python was large enough and also wide enough to properly swallow humans, he'd most likely eat you if he were to get hungry. So on that basis i wouldn't consider a BP domesticated. Also reptiles don't have mammal type instincts (such as social instincts which are present in both cats and dogs) and inorder to properly "domesticate" them you'd have to change their instincts which without MASSIVE efforts of selective breeding for desired docility; snakes won't become domesticated anytime soon.

YES I THINK THEY ARE DOMS+Epoijpig jwpoejfpainaoidgnaeougnaounougnogiuneorunggggg

I am sorry about that last post. My computer went crazy. Please disregard the post above. But no I don't think they are domesticated such as dogs. reason being is that dogs have lost pretty much all instincts, while snakes continue to carry most of theirs. Once BP's begin to be hyper active, not headshy, and lose aggression in their feeding response I think then they will have become domesticated. Humans have not handled them for long enough. For dogs it took over 700 years of human interaction.

no.

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The cats are a different story. Actually, i think they run the place.

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^ yes to this comment lol

Not yet! Right now they are captive born. Selected for Looks, with no regard for disposition.
Some people even seem to think an aggressive snake is 'cute'!

They *could become Domestic* if folks would breed for 'tameness" as diligently as they do for new colors/patterns--
(Look at the Russian Foxes!) I really wish someone would!