For those who have used Equate to treat mites...

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Sure, Equate kills mites, albeit temporarily as the substance breaks down too quickly to kill the eggs and larvae. It has been proven that Provent-a-Mite kills mites in ALL stages of its lifecycle. Equate, consequently, has not been proven to do that.

That's not the issue here...its that Equate is dangerous to reptiles and inadvisable to be used by new keepers that are inexperienced with it. That includes you Steven, as you previously stated that you have zero experience with it. Don't make dumb statements like "Use PAM or Equate, they both work great," you might end up being responsible for a new keeper killing their animal. I'm not willing to advocate something like that, niether should you, regardless of what you've been told by your so-called sources that have yet to be named.

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How about the wording on the packaging of Equate (as is required):

"It is a violation of federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling."

Those are pretty strong words...

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Originally Posted by jglass38

As I stated, I will continue to answer every ridiculous post with a truthful explanation of why its not only not fact but could be dangerous. We, as EXPERIENCED keepers need to make sure that the inexperienced, new keepers don't follow a path that may be harmful to their animal. That is done by educating them and giving them the tools to make the right decision. Until Equate has been tested and approved for use in reptiles, Steven shouldn't be recommending it to anyone.

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I know exactly what you're trying to say. And I happen to agree with it 100%. BUT....your point is no less valid or visible just because someone posts a comment behind it. Anyone reading this thread will have read your point (and those of many others) loud and clear and will have made their choice on who's viewpoint to believe whether you get the "last word" in or not. It really begins to erode your position to continue arguing in such a petty manner. (And please believe me, I do NOT believe your position or opinion on this topic are petty!)

Let them that have eyes see...and them that have ears hear. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by JLC

I know exactly what you're trying to say. And I happen to agree with it 100%. BUT....your point is no less valid or visible just because someone posts a comment behind it. Anyone reading this thread will have read your point (and those of many others) loud and clear and will have made their choice on who's viewpoint to believe whether you get the "last word" in or not. It really begins to erode your position to continue arguing in such a petty manner. (And please believe me, I do NOT believe your position or opinion on this topic are petty!)

Let them that have eyes see...and them that have ears hear. :rolleyes:

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Good point. However, every time he posts there is one more chance that an inexperienced keeper (such as himself) will see those words and make the wrong decision.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Good point. However, every time he posts there is one more chance that an inexperienced keeper (such as himself) will see those words and make the wrong decision.

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Really? Is that 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 chance worth tearing the forum up with long-winded arguments that said "inexperienced keeper" is highly unlikely to wade all the way through anyhow?

That said...I'd just like to point out that my two last comments (including this one) seem to be directed at you, Jamie, because I'm simply responding to your direct queries. My original attempt at a light-hearted derailing of this discussion is most certainly directed at all parties involved...as are the rest of these posts about the foolishness of playing the "last word" game.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Once again you miss the point! Just because something works (or so you say) doesn't mean that it is the right thing for the animal. .

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Well you have members on here that have already posted their success with equate and the fact that they have had no ill effects...Jamie go to any other reptile forum and look up equate and see what people have to say.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

You are freely recommending something that is being used in a manner other than the label states and may have long term effects..

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Well we don't have any record of equate spray having any long term effects affecting any animals lives.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

You sound like a little child and I fully expect a picture of a piece of pie next.

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Wrong! Brownies! Rich Chocolate gooey Brownies! :8: :sweeet: :laughing:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l1...0/brownies.jpg

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Originally Posted by JLC

Really? Is that 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 chance worth tearing the forum up with long-winded arguments that said "inexperienced keeper" is highly unlikely to wade all the way through anyhow?

That said...I'd just like to point out that my two last comments (including this one) seem to be directed at you, Jamie, because I'm simply responding to your direct queries. My original attempt at a light-hearted derailing of this discussion is most certainly directed at all parties involved...as are the rest of these posts about the foolishness of playing the "last word" game.

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The problem I have is, I have posted facts backed up by science and Steven has posted conjecture, speculation, the claims of a few that have used it successfully (for an initial infestation, not long term protection) and pictures of pies. He comes off as more ridiculous with each post.

You know, going back and forth on this seems almost pointless. It wasn't that long ago that people were using pest strips to get rid of mites, and many people still use a lot of homemade remedies such as olive oil, soap and water, etc.

The point is the both Equate and PAM will get rid of mites, and Equate can probably do it safely although not as effectively. (keyword there is probably)

I did learn a lot about both products from this post, and I don't think I would have any problems recommending Equate to someone if they refused to use PAM for whatever reason. It seems to me that Equate is better than many alternatives, and if someone is going to try and save a few bucks then they're probably the type of person that would either ignore the problem or try another home remedy that may be worse.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

The point is the both Equate and PAM will get rid of mites, and Equate can probably do it safely although not as effectively. (keyword there is probably)

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I disagree. While Equate may get rid of an initial infestation, it will do nothing to prevent a new outbreak. What do you base its probability of safety on? That no one has reported that their snake has died yet (that we know of)? What about long term safety? Use what you want (you being anyone, not specifically you) but don't recommend something that may be lethal unless you are prepared to have the death of someone's animal on your conscience.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I disagree. While Equate may get rid of an initial infestation, it will do nothing to prevent a new outbreak. What do you base its probability of safety on? That no one has reported that their snake has died yet (that we know of)? What about long term safety? Use what you want (you being anyone, not specifically you) but don't recommend something that may be lethal unless you are prepared to have the death of someone's animal on your conscience.

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Okay, but if someone asked you about getting rid of a mite infestation and they told you they didn't want to use PAM because it was too expensive, or they didn't like the owner, or whatever else... what would you recommend?

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Okay, but if someone asked you about getting rid of a mite infestation and they told you they didn't want to use PAM because it was too expensive, or they didn't like the owner, or whatever else... what would you recommend?

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I wouldn't recommend a product that is not proven to be safe for use with reptiles. I once did and realized how dangerous it was. Its one thing to take a chance with your own animals, but it is dangerous and flat out wrong to do so with others.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I wouldn't recommend a product that is not proven to be safe for use with reptiles. I once did and realized how dangerous it was. Its one thing to take a chance with your own animals, but it is dangerous and flat out wrong to do so with others.

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Hmm... I think it is more wrong to do nothing. Surely recommending a product that has not been proven to be harmful is better than allowing the snake to die a slow death from mites.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Hmm... I think it is more wrong to do nothing. Surely recommending a product that has not been proven to be harmful is better than allowing the snake to die a slow death from mites.

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I would tell them to use a product proven safe.

But Jamie how could you not love those Pies! They look Delicious! :rolleye2:

Alright folks....I tried to bring this to an amicable close, but that's not gonna happen. It's time to let this one go to sleep.


I know there are a number of people anxious to get their last words in....so....you've got five minutes to do so. In exactly five minutes, this thread is closing, whether you're done typing or not. :P

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Hmm... I think it is more wrong to do nothing. Surely recommending a product that has not been proven to be harmful is better than allowing the snake to die a slow death from mites.

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Oh how true! Whether you like equate or not you can't not agree with that post!

:rockon:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Alright folks....I tried to bring this to an amicable close, but that's not gonna happen. It's time to let this one go to sleep.


I know there are a number of people anxious to get their last words in....so....you've got five minutes to do so. In exactly five minutes, this thread is closing, whether you're done typing or not. :P

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I disagree. The admins decide when a discussion is over? Why? Are there hateful words being exchanged? Threats?

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I disagree. The admins decide when a discussion is over? Why? Are there hateful words being exchanged? Threats?

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WHy argue more than you already have.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I disagree.

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That suprises me LOL

How about this?...

"PAM" is the only product that has been clinically tested and federally approved to eradicate mites and ticks that feed on snakes, and it will not harm the host being treated when used as directed.

However, there are several people who use a "chemically" similar and cheaper product called Equate and have reported successfully eradicating mite infestations. Equate has not been clinically tested and has not been federally approved for such applications. Therefore, there is no factual or scientific data available at this time on any long term effects this product may have on reptiles.

It is up to you, the owner of the animal, to make an intelligent/informed decision on which course of action to take when it comes to treating your snakes. My personal recommendation will be to pay the extra dollar and go with Provent-a-mite! Hope my advice has been helpful for a new comer like yourself to this hobby and have a pleasant day!

Now where is my cake?!

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

WHy argue more than you already have.

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Maturity as always! I like it! Debates that make you think are what its all about. Its not about arguing...

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I disagree. The admins decide when a discussion is over? Why? Are there hateful words being exchanged? Threats?

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Actually....yes. The admins and staff DO decide when a discussion is over. It's one of the perks of the job. :rolleyes: No...not really. It's a damned if you do...damned if you don't sort of thing. One party says "How can you let threads go on and on like this???" and another party says "How can you infringe on my right to express myself?"

This horse has been beat into a fair and unrecognizable pulp. LOTS of great information here...and I've no intention of deleting the thread....because...you did not resort to hateful words or threats. But sometimes...enough is enough...