Feeder Euthanasia the Easy Way, and Humane too...

From AVMA:

http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_we...euthanasia.pdf

"Species - Rodents and other small mammals

Acceptable - Barbiturates, inhalant anesthetics, CO2, CO, potassium chloride in conjunction with general anesthesia, microwave irradiation"

Microwave is more humane than dry ice?

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Originally Posted by jfreels

Get a small standing freezer on craigslist. After time passes, my wife has become more accepting of it. She doesn't even mind the defrosting mice/rats in the fridge. It's not like it stinks up all the other food.

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Haha! What I like is the word OTHER, in: "other food". :P

Not to keep beating a dead horse, but the use of CO2 as a type of euthanasia isn't really the most humane way to go about it anyway. I'm not trying to judge anyone because I do and have used CO2 in the form of dry ice to euthanize. With that being said, when using CO2 the animals do not "go to sleep" they actually suffocate while still conscious. CO2 has a greater affinity for hemoglobin than O2 and the animals die of acidosis and hypoxia. The idea of them "going to sleep" only applies to CO exposure. I only say this because I initially mixed this up. When this was brought up to me however I had to think about it again and that individual was correct....lol a health sciences major mixing the 2 up.

I just want to say thanks for this easy tutorial. It worked very quickly and was much more humane than any other options I had at this time. My breeding project got the best of me and I was seriously overrun with ASF rats. The dry ice /CO2 worked very quickly and was much much better than my previous attempt at putting them in the freezer alive ( I DO NOT recommend this in any way at all, very very terrible experience).

we use a co2 canister and a ikea box with hoses and valves

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Originally Posted by mschmied

Not to keep beating a dead horse, but the use of CO2 as a type of euthanasia isn't really the most humane way to go about it anyway. I'm not trying to judge anyone because I do and have used CO2 in the form of dry ice to euthanize. With that being said, when using CO2 the animals do not "go to sleep" they actually suffocate while still conscious. CO2 has a greater affinity for hemoglobin than O2 and the animals die of acidosis and hypoxia. The idea of them "going to sleep" only applies to CO exposure. I only say this because I initially mixed this up. When this was brought up to me however I had to think about it again and that individual was correct....lol a health sciences major mixing the 2 up.

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I have never used co2. I do see a benefit if you have to cull many many feeders, but for me even when I had to kill even a 100 feeders the fastest and most human, not to mention the cheapest way was to simply break their necks. with rats that meant grasping their tails and a quick smack against something hard, or with rabbits holding their shoulders and "wringing their necks"

seems really effective and not so stressful on the rats, great post mate. .

Actually this is very inhumane!!!! You are torturing your rats and giving them a very painful death. By not regulating the CO2 mixture you are releasing a lot of CO2 at a very fast rate. This burns their esophagus and the rest of the respiratory track. CO2 should only be used with a regulator so that the CO2 is released at a very slow rate and this way the rats fall asleep without getting their insides burnt. I got my CO2 regulator from Hydrofarm.

You are absolutely right!!! This post is supporting the inhumane treatment of animals and should be removed! I will work on a set of pictures showing the right method with a regulator.

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Originally Posted by luijibored

You are absolutely right!!! This post is supporting the inhumane treatment of animals and should be removed! I will work on a set of pictures showing the right method with a regulator.

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Did you just agree with yourself? O_o

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Did you just agree with yourself? O_o

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I wondered the same. :rofl:

I suspect it is more likely they found another post saying something similar when reading through the thread and just didn't quote it. :P

I figured that was the case. Just couldn't help snickering :D
Not that there is anything wrong with talking to yourself. I do it all the time. The arguments are quite entertaining. :P

Not only I am in agreement with myself, but also with everybody else that has posted the proper way to euthanize fellow mammals with a central nervous system just like yourself. Placing rats in the freezer live??????? WTF ???????????

http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=8125

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Originally Posted by dr del

I wondered the same. :rofl:

I suspect it is more likely they found another post saying something similar when reading through the thread and just didn't quote it. :P

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Nice work, detectives!!!

OK so after reading that long and tedious 17 page forum and doing a bit of my own research throughout today yes dry ice can be inhumane if you prim the container, if you expose the rodent directly to the dry ice, and if you add water to speed the process
I have found discrepancies in the time as 5 min is not long enough if it is anything younger than an adult with a maximum time for rats being 20 mins for fuzzies and not recommended at all for pinkies
I also have read the regulations set out and that the only method to dispense co2 correctly is with a full lab setup and co2 canister

Now realistically using either method works and if administered properly is humane in a since when you get right down to it killing anything for a reason other than to prolong an already agonizing situation could be considered inhumane. For reasons of cost effectiveness co2 canister is in the long run cheaper due to storage issues with block dry ice how ever start up cost are not cost effective for someone starting out, feeding on a budget, or only having to dispense of rodents on a periodic basis - for those rodent breeder on much smaller scales I could see how the dry ice method would work best.

I however really did not see any point in the almost year long argument over rather or not using dry ice was inhumane and did not help any of those people that where looking for a cost effective way to humanely dispense of their rodents before feeding. which eventually lead to the grossly inhumane methods of breaking necks, stunning, and just all around methods of bludgeoning the poor fellow for the sake of natural order.

I myself use to feed live when I had snakes years ago and find f/t very convenient however expensive. With a recent adoption from a military man that could no longer care for his red tail boa I got a breeder setup of rats and sought this forum on how best to dispense of them once they reached appropriate size seeing as there are far to many for me to feed even once a week between one red tail boa and 2 ball pythons.

I commend everyone's strong opinions and views looking out for the safety and humane dispensing of the feeders but please remember that killing them just to feed them to another animal isn't in itself humane to start with. I love my steak just as much as the next omnivore and heck I even like tofu and soy products that doesn't mean that I find it any less cruel that for me to have that steak a bull is sent to slaughter in what is claimed to be humane conditions and we all know they are not so humane yet we all still eat. In an informative sticky you would think that there could have been less arguing outright in the forum and keeping directly to the point.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lady Kat

OK so after reading that long and tedious 17 page forum and doing a bit of my own research throughout today yes dry ice can be inhumane if you prim the container, if you expose the rodent directly to the dry ice, and if you add water to speed the process
I have found discrepancies in the time as 5 min is not long enough if it is anything younger than an adult with a maximum time for rats being 20 mins for fuzzies and not recommended at all for pinkies
I also have read the regulations set out and that the only method to dispense co2 correctly is with a full lab setup and co2 canister

Now realistically using either method works and if administered properly is humane in a since when you get right down to it killing anything for a reason other than to prolong an already agonizing situation could be considered inhumane. For reasons of cost effectiveness co2 canister is in the long run cheaper due to storage issues with block dry ice how ever start up cost are not cost effective for someone starting out, feeding on a budget, or only having to dispense of rodents on a periodic basis - for those rodent breeder on much smaller scales I could see how the dry ice method would work best.

I however really did not see any point in the almost year long argument over rather or not using dry ice was inhumane and did not help any of those people that where looking for a cost effective way to humanely dispense of their rodents before feeding. which eventually lead to the grossly inhumane methods of breaking necks, stunning, and just all around methods of bludgeoning the poor fellow for the sake of natural order.

I myself use to feed live when I had snakes years ago and find f/t very convenient however expensive. With a recent adoption from a military man that could no longer care for his red tail boa I got a breeder setup of rats and sought this forum on how best to dispense of them once they reached appropriate size seeing as there are far to many for me to feed even once a week between one red tail boa and 2 ball pythons.

I commend everyone's strong opinions and views looking out for the safety and humane dispensing of the feeders but please remember that killing them just to feed them to another animal isn't in itself humane to start with. I love my steak just as much as the next omnivore and heck I even like tofu and soy products that doesn't mean that I find it any less cruel that for me to have that steak a bull is sent to slaughter in what is claimed to be humane conditions and we all know they are not so humane yet we all still eat. In an informative sticky you would think that there could have been less arguing outright in the forum and keeping directly to the point.

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Leaving an animal to die a humane method vs a painful method matters regardless if they're going to be food or not.

Cervical dislocation is actually one of the more humane methods.

Anyway, there are hundreds of threads in regard to this topic. Some more recent than this. I recommend taking a look at some of those as well....

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BP.net should remove this sticky because I've read several articles that using dry ice isn't humane. Only CO2 and cervical dislocation are considered humane.

Interesting read until the egos got into play. Here's my one question in regards to this method.

If I go the dry ice route, after a couple minutes the rat/mice will be dead. What's their body temperature? Is other words, am I going to have to bring their temp back up, or are they ready to be fed?

I think dry ice cools their temp some, not sure tho cuz from what I can tell no direct contact with the ice but the gas itself i would assume is cooler. I don't use dry ice so not for sure on that but I have a buddy who if he feeds right after he hits them with the hair drier but could just be habit

wow thats really great lol and very low cost thanks!!!:)

I'm going to skip over all the debate and add in a minor detail that I think may be relevant as far as CO2 goes. As military aircrew you have to do altitude chamber training regularly, most depressurization events are slow leaks (the kind you see in the movies is super rare) so it is essential to know (and be reminded at regular intervals) what hypoxia actually feels like so you can recognize it and respond appropriately. I'm assuming not many people have here have first-hand knowledge of what it feels like to actually be hypoxic.

Losing oxygen fast (we did practice that too) is pretty scary, you can feel your lungs straining and it is alarming. Slow leaks however are kind of fun. Everything in your brain slows down, things seem amusing for no reason. Your reactions slow dramatically, but it isn't alarming, more of an intriguing event that you somehow can't process. Eventually the fog gets thicker and thicker and you black out (or put your ox mask on and suddenly realize you were seeing in black and white only and didn't even notice).

I have no reason to think that rodents experience hypoxia any differently than humans, we're mammals with very similar biological processes. Thus I believe that CO2 is a humane method as long as it is done gradually. Just control the flow, however you chose to do it.

Okayy thank you badgemash!!! So all youre really doing is giving the mice/rats/whatever else a little loopy high before they pass out? I think that it seems perfectly humane to do that, weather with dry ice or a canister, just gotta make sure it isnt filled too fast. No priming done basically.

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I know this is an old thread but I see that much of the argument is about whether it's more humane to gradually introduce CO2 over a longer period of time via.dry ice or to introduce it quickly via.CO2 canisters, and I would like to give some input on both. I have been exposed to both and almost died with the slower one because I didn't realize what was happening until right before I passed out(luckily I was able to get to the door and opened it in time), it was completely painless, I felt a bit numb towards that end and it mostly just felt like I took some sleeping pills that had just kicked in, made me feel kinda loopy actually, it was kinda fun. With the faster one I immediately knew what was happening and it hurt, my eyes felt like they were gonna pop out, it felt like I was bleeding internally, like my lungs were full of wet sand.
I'd rather the slower method, it's fun and painless.

I feel something is being missed, but I will preface by saying I buy all my rodents from rodent pro. Now when I was feeding live to dome of my snakes I saw them snap rodents necks, mind you that was rare. However it can't be overlooked that in cases of constriction that the heart can actually explode. I would imagine that is a lot worse than asphyxiation, the real point is killing in itself is in humane. So really all the arguments here are kinda pointless, just my .02 on the subject.

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