Wiggles, the Children's Python

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Originally Posted by Homebody

My wife just called me. She was very upset. She can't do the laundry because Wiggles is in the laundry cart and she's afraid to move it.

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:D Your wife is afraid of that little worm? Hey, at least he's FOUND! :dance:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

:D Your wife is afraid of that little worm? Hey, at least he's FOUND! :dance:

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My son came to her rescue, so no need to fret. The laundry will get done.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

...Clearly I've been giving him too much freedom. When I find him, he's going to be so grounded.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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On a serious note, I think I will scale back his activity sessions. Not because Wiggles did anything wrong, but because I can't handle them. I'm thinking one late night session a week. Late night to minimize distractions. I'll add more sessions as my supervisory skills improve.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

On a serious note, I think I will scale back his activity sessions. Not because Wiggles did anything wrong, but because I can't handle them. I'm thinking one late night session a week. Late night to minimize distractions. I'll add more sessions as my supervisory skills improve.

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As long as you're not dozing off late night- been there, done that! :cool: Yeah, Wiggles was just being a snek! :snake:

Something to consider (& based on what I've seen with various different kinds of snakes I've kept over the years): Many snakes sit still as a form of camouflage from predators. As much as they get to know us, I think their instincts still tell them to "sit still" when we're watching them, & move off the moment we're no longer looking. Like I said, been there... I'm very glad he was found quickly & unharmed. :gj:

Glad you found him safe and sound! :D

I'm always paranoid about escapes and snakes getting out of my hands and getting to where I can't retrieve them, especially as I've gradually gone from a slow BP to a speedy VBB. :worry:

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

Glad you found him safe and sound! :D

I'm always paranoid about escapes and snakes getting out of my hands and getting to where I can't retrieve them, especially as I've gradually gone from a slow BP to a speedy VBB. :worry:

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You're absolutely right to stay vigilant. And skinny snakes fit in more places too- plus they climb better.

@ Homebody- that's another thing Wiggles would like to play (climb) on- an empty laundry basket (as long as all the holes are a safe size- nothing he can get stuck in). And it seems he's already shown a propensity for doing laundry...:D

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Something to consider (& based on what I've seen with various different kinds of snakes I've kept over the years): Many snakes sit still as a form of camouflage from predators. As much as they get to know us, I think their instincts still tell them to "sit still" when we're watching them, & move off the moment we're no longer looking.

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I can't tell you how many times I've lost Wiggles only to find him right in front of my face. He's not a chameleon! He's brown with a faint spotted pattern, but evolution has given him the ability to fit perfectly in the gaps in our perception making him, at times, effectively invisible. It's spooky.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I can't tell you how many times I've lost Wiggles only to find him right in front of my face. He's not a chameleon! He's brown with a faint spotted pattern, but evolution has given him the ability to fit perfectly in the gaps in our perception making him, at times, effectively invisible. It's spooky.

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Yes, my Spotted python has excellent camouflage for shadowy places too- darker green w/faint speckling ("granite phase"). Either way, their patterns help break up their overall body shape that we see. I hope he's at least a little contrite today? ;) LOL

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

I'm always paranoid about escapes and snakes getting out of my hands and getting to where I can't retrieve them, especially as I've gradually gone from a slow BP to a speedy VBB. :worry:

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Yeah, I'm still adjusting from BP care to Children's care. I used to let my BP roam all. Because he was large and slow, I only had to keep a half eye on him. While my Children's is still slow, I find I need to keep two eyes on him. I admire your VBB and I'll follow closely its progression, but I don't envy your challenge in keeping up with it. When he's out, you may need to find a way to put a third eye on him.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

@ Homebody- that's another thing Wiggles would like to play (climb) on- an empty laundry basket (as long as all the holes are a safe size- nothing he can get stuck in). And it seems he's already shown a propensity for doing laundry...:D

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I've heard that snakes like soft surfaces. I'll have to add some to his enclosure and activity center.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I hope he's at least a little contrite today? ;) LOL

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Contrite? I don't think so. Ungrateful little punk was begging to get out three hours later.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

:D Your wife is afraid of that little worm? Hey, at least he's FOUND! :dance:

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I feel like I have to set the record straight. I got the full story when I got home. She wasn't afraid of him. She was afraid for him. She was in the laundry room in the basement of our building when she found him. She was afraid to move because she didn't want to startle him. If she lost him again there, he'd be even harder to find.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Contrite? I don't think so. Ungrateful little punk was begging to get out three hours later.

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Hate to say it but you've "created a monster" hahahaha! Sure hope he doesn't take to rubbing his nose raw while pushing to leave home for another excursion.

Yes, some snakes do seem to like soft things too- a clean un-matched sock that you don't need just might make his day?

Even some snug (clean) boxes are enjoyed- one of my young (4') rat snake ladies like to curl up in empty Kleenex boxes. :cool: And if you have some various small clean boxes, you can cut little doorways w/ an Exacto knife & join them together for a "maze"- I've done that for young rat snakes before, & they LOVED it, always peeking out of different holes. Of course when it gets dirty, it goes, but it's just one more "toy" challenge for them.

Last night's target training went really well. For both feeders, he moved his whole body a short distance to the target before I fed him. I'd say this puts him at stage 4. Stages 5, 6 & 7 basically entail making him travel progressively further to the target before he's fed. I'm confident we can do that.

The reason I'm so excited is that two weeks ago he didn't really react to the target at all, so I just fed him with the target present (stage 1). I started to doubt my ability to do this, but, then, last week, I was shocked when Wiggles struck at the target twice. I realized, "Ah, so you do know what the target means." Armed with that realization, I was much more patient this week. When I presented the target, Wiggles just stared at me. I said to myself, "Be patient. He knows what the target means." It was only a couple minutes before he broke. He started to move toward the target. I fed him when he reached it. It went the same with the second feeder.

My problem was that I lacked the confidence to be patient. I've never done this before. It's easy to doubt that I'm doing it correctly. I see now that I am doing it correctly, and Wiggles is progressing. Armed with that confidence, I know I'll have the patience necessary to see Wiggles through the final stages of his training and I'm very excited about that.

I’ve noticed that Wiggles avoids doing things that lead directly to being handled. That’s why he no longer goes in the forbidden gap (post #59). When I open his enclosure now, he still heads over to the gap. He explores it with his head and neck, but he doesn’t go in. I monitor his behavior pretty closely. So, when he does this, I move my chair a little closer so I can grab him if I need to. When I do this, he withdraws immediately and looks at me. I imagine him saying, “I was just looking. I wasn’t going to go in there.” His fear of being handled, in that moment, is palpable.

When I say fear, I don’t mean terror. He doesn’t strike at me. He just doesn’t want to be handled. It’s like if you drive too fast through a speed trap. You’re afraid you’re going to get a ticket. That fear of being handled has proven to be an effective teaching tool.

During last night’s activity session, Wiggles made a beeline for the hallway where I keep my laundry cart. That’s where I eventually found him after I lost him a couple weeks ago and, as a result, where he’s no longer allowed to go. Just before he reached the threshold, I scooped him up and put him back on his activity station. From there, he made a beeline for the hallway again, and again, I scooped him up and returned him to his activity station. I don’t know how many times we did this, 3, 4, maybe 5 times, but, eventually, before he reached the threshold he stopped on his own, sat there for a minute or two and went back the way he came. I hope, eventually, he’ll learn to keep himself in the living room and I won’t have to intervene so often.

This got me to thinking, “How do I feel about Wiggles’s perception of my handling as negative reinforcement?” It turns out I’m totally o.k. with it. I think I differ from a lot of keepers in that I’ve never really enjoyed handling all that much. When I had a bp, who is the undisputed king of handling, I found that what I enjoyed the most was when he climbed off my shoulders and started exploring. By giving him the freedom to explore on his own, I was able to learn what he liked and what he didn't. I got to know him personally. When he passed, I decided to get a snake that was more active and inquisitive. That he was less handleable didn’t bother me.

Now, I know that negative reinforcement is a limited tool. Tickets don’t stop people from speeding. Wiggles will get accustomed to my handing, but I’ll happily use it as long as it’s effective.

Last night, Wiggles completed five laps around my living room and, when he'd had enough, he put himself away. He was hanging out on his branches when I went to refresh his water and replace his ice block. When I was done, I just laid down in front of his enclosure to watch him. He stopped by to give me a sniff before climbing out onto the top of his enclosure. Over the course of a lap, he'll climb my house plants, surf the screen of the open window, climb down off the window sill into a large fern, crawl under one end table, behind my couch, under the matching end table, and finally head for the door. There I tap him, scoop him up, and return him to the activity station on top of his enclosure. Last night's session was particularly satisfying because my daughter was there and it was she who scooped him up at the end of each lap. I just love sharing the joy I get from playing with Wiggles with others. It was also satisfying because Wiggles was able to end the session when he'd had enough.

It was funny to me how it ended. On the fourth lap, I could see he was getting tired. He stopped to rest in the fern, under the couch and in the wicker basket on the second end table. So when I scooped him up, I thought he'd return to his enclosure. I'm pretty confident that he knows how to get back into his enclosure from his activity station. He's done it before. He did start for the enclosure entrance, but surprised me by heading out for another lap. I'm not sure if he tried to return home and just got confused, or if he changed his mind and just decided he wanted to go for another lap. Either way, on lap five he didn't dawdle. He raced through it. I think he was eager to get home. Sure enough, at the end of it, he quickly and confidently put himself away.

It was a prototypical activity session. He started it; he was active but also safe during it; and when he'd had enough, he ended it. I know they won't all go this well. Wiggles and I still have a lot to learn, but I expect good quality sessions like this one to one day become the norm.

That's awesome! :gj: I think he's trying to redeem himself after giving you such a scare when he disappeared recently- :D

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I think he's trying to redeem himself after giving you such a scare when he disappeared recently- :D

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I dunno. From Wiggles's point of view, last night was five more failed attempts to escape via the laundry cart, but it's o.k. I know that one day the love and admiration I have for him will be mutual.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

... I know that one day the love and admiration I have for him will be mutual.

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That I've gotta see- I have some doubts. :D (Not that you aren't deserving, just that :snake: will be :snake:.)

Personally, I'm happy just to have these essentially-wild animals feel comfortable & safe with me. I wouldn't really call it love or admiration though.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

That I've gotta see- I have some doubts. :D (Not that you aren't deserving, just that :snake: will be :snake:.)

Personally, I'm happy just to have these essentially-wild animals feel comfortable & safe with me. I wouldn't really call it love or admiration though.

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Indifference, then. I know that one day Wiggles will feel as indifferent to me as I love and admire him. Better?

Wiggles’s target training went well tonight. This comes as something of a relief because his past couple sessions haven’t gone well. August 24th, he didn’t react to the target at all, so I didn’t feed him. I checked my calendar and decided that he must be going into a shed. Funny thing though, he remained active. Came out every night for his activity session. I started to wonder if he had just failed to recognize the target. August 31, still didn’t react to the target. Still didn’t get fed. My doubt grew until a couple days later, he went into his pre-shed hiding.

He came out of hiding yesterday. Tonight he relocated a short distance in his enclosure (training stage 5 of 7) to the target both times before being fed. The difference in how he reacted to the target was stark. The two previous sessions, he didn’t react at all. Tonight, he stalked it. Very cool.

That's great. I can sure see how this requires patience for the periodic frustration, but hey, you're getting there, & apparently he knows what he wants. :gj:

I've recently started using this insulated paper that Amazon Fresh uses to pack frozen foods in Wiggles's enclosure. It's soft and insulating like a blanket, but I don't have to clean it if Wiggles soils it. So, it's very useful.
https://i.imgur.com/UayfEWx.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ23kCUOZzQ

The video above is something of a graduation from target training for Wiggles. The seventh and final stage of target training is to target out of the enclosure and onto an activity station. That is essentially what happens here. Although it was only two weeks ago that Wiggles was at stage 5 (post #172), stage six was not really a challenge for Wiggles. Stage six requires him to target across the threshold of his enclosure. This can be quite a challenge for a shy snake, but Wiggles is a confident snake that eagerly leaves his enclosure nightly for his activity session. So, I decided to skip that step.

I will continue target training him. Not all our target training sessions go that well. So, he can grow in his proficiency, and I will also teach him to target over greater distances.

Also, one of the reasons I decided on such an ambitious session was that I wanted to get a weight on him. As you can see from the video, he weighed in at 187 grams. That is 23 grams more that his last weigh in on June 25th. His rate of growth has slowed significantly. His June 25th weight was 44 grams more than his March 26th weight which was 39 grams more that his January weight. As he matures, I expect the rate of his growth to slow even further. I’ll keep weighing him quarterly, though, for as long as he shows significant growth.

You and Wiggles are doing SO well together! He's made really wonderful progress in target training, and it sounds like he's enjoying his exploration sessions.

I also have a couple of snakes that, while they aren't afraid of me at all and don't mind being in close proximity, simply prefer not to be handled. That's fine. I'm just happy that they trust me. I keep handling down to only necessary situations and even then I try to give them the option of maybe shifting to a container or climbing onto a pet bed, branch, etc. to be carried rather than held.

Look who's hunting microbats.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/2kGuJNk.jpg

"Any minute now, a bat's gonna fly out of that cave. I just know it."

Last night, I learned that I need to be more flexible in my target training. Lately, I've been pretty rigid. My thinking has been that Wiggles knows that if he touches the target he gets fed. He needs to learn that, if he doesn't touch the target, he doesn't get fed. For you logicians out there, he knows that touching the target is sufficient to get fed. He needs to learn that it's also necessary. So, lately, if Wiggles didn't touch the target, he didn't get fed. That's what happened last week, and if I stayed rigid, it would have happened again this week.

Last night, when I presented the target, he showed some interest, but didn't move toward it and didn't touch it. I became concerned that he was going to miss another meal. He's healthy enough to do it, but I started to wonder if it was my training and not Wiggles's appetite that was the problem. I decided to compromise on the goal. I cut off the mouse's tail and simply presented it with the target. This is stage 1 stuff. Wiggles is supposed to be at stage 7, so this is a big compromise. It worked. He ate the tail. When I presented the target again, he quickly and confidently moved out of his enclosure onto the station (stage 7), just like he's supposed to. I'm not entirely sure why Wiggles needed to take that step back to move forward, but I'm glad to worked.

According to Serpwidgets.com, Wiggles is 31.29 - 31.79 inches long.
https://i.imgur.com/Q4eRgpM.png
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach....com/a/5dyHHfm

https://i.imgur.com/yDFJ1Iw.jpg

I have received the prize. Now, I know everything! I am everything! (Highlander, 1986)

Good, we'll expect GREAT things from you now! Side note- when I first got my spotted python, I nicknamed her "Aunt Theresa" because it helped me remember her species name. :cool:

When I got to know her better, she became Yiva, which means "wolf" or "she-wolf" in Scandinavian- so much more appropriate. :snake2:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Good, we'll expect GREAT things from you now!

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Now wait a minute! In my excitement, I may have gotten a bit ahead of myself. I should, at least, read the book first. I did read the first chapter, and I'll say it's a dense read. I'm going to have to read it again while also reading the sources that they cite to better understand it. Then, I'll probably need to read it a third time. So, it's going to take me a while get through all 256 pages. As I go along, though, I'll share about the most interesting things I learn.

how many books Mutton got 🤔

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Originally Posted by YungRasputin

how many books Mutton got 🤔

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Three that I know of. This one and two on carpet pythons.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Now wait a minute! In my excitement, I may have gotten a bit ahead of myself. I should, at least, read the book first. I did read the first chapter, and I'll say it's a dense read. I'm going to have to read it again while also reading the sources that they cite to better understand it. Then, I'll probably need to read it a third time. So, it's going to take me a while get through all 256 pages. As I go along, though, I'll share about the most interesting things I learn.

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I was thinking you oughta read it first...:rofl: But you'll get there.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Three that I know of. This one and two on carpet pythons.

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was gonna say! someone just the other day in the carpet python section recommended me 1 of the carpet books and then i saw this so i was like hmm 🤔

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Originally Posted by YungRasputin

was gonna say! someone just the other day in the carpet python section recommended me 1 of the carpet books and then i saw this so i was like hmm 🤔

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The second one on carpets is just an expansion of the first one. It's not out yet, but should be out soon. So, I'd wait for it.

i would love to own that book one day, it seems like a great read. :)

I cleaned Wiggles's enclosure a day early. I have the day off and Wiggles conveniently decided to come out for a morning activity session. His activity sessions have been much less active of late. He used to do laps around my living room. Recently, he discovered my bookcase. This was one of my late BP's favorite haunts. He hides his body behind the books but leaves his head out so he can watch what's going on. He can sit here for hours.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/WnrypST.jpg
I've also recently reduced the amount I'm feeding him. I tried adding a pinkie to his hopper, but he started refusing. Since the change, he's been eating regularly. I'll reconsider this depending on his New Year's weigh-in.

Nothing better than a scholarly predator! :rofl: As far as adding a pinkie- are you just trying to use them up? They don't add much in the way of nutrition, & his objection might have to do with the fact that for snakes with longer teeth, pinkies can be awkward to consume (they can actually get stuck on their teeth- I've noticed this with some snakes). He's looking great. :love:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

As far as adding a pinkie- are you just trying to use them up?

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No. I was just trying to add a few grams to his meal. I thought a hopper was too small, but that an adult mouse would be too big, so I added a pinkie to the hopper.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/CXU7j7S.jpg

He's getting more comfortable with me. He crawled onto my arm himself.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Nothing better than a scholarly predator! :rofl: As far as adding a pinkie- are you just trying to use them up? They don't add much in the way of nutrition, & his objection might have to do with the fact that for snakes with longer teeth, pinkies can be awkward to consume (they can actually get stuck on their teeth- I've noticed this with some snakes). He's looking great. :love:

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And they don't have fingers to poke the pinkie from between their teeth . . . .

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Originally Posted by Spicey

And they don't have fingers to poke the pinkie from between their teeth . . . .

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He didn't obviously to have any trouble with them, but I guess he may have. I'll pay closer attention if I ever have to feed pinkies in the future. For now, I have a different feeding challenge, reptilinks. My first order should be delivered tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

He didn't obviously to have any trouble with them, but I guess he may have. I'll pay closer attention if I ever have to feed pinkies in the future. For now, I have a different feeding challenge, reptilinks. My first order should be delivered tomorrow.

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I can remember (when I was very new to keeping snakes) seeing a snake have that trouble with a pinkie- one was a BP. Wiggles head is smaller though.

Hey, I've never tried Reptilinks for any of my snakes- I sure hope he likes them, & good luck with that.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I can remember (when I was very new to keeping snakes) seeing a snake have that trouble with a pinkie- one was a BP. Wiggles head is smaller though.

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I know what you mean. I fed Wiggles a mouse tail once just to wet his appetite for a training session. It worked, but he sure struggled to get it down.

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I scented the Reptilink with a hopper mouse. Watching him trying to find the head was hilarious.

Hey, he did GREAT! :gj: But shame on you for laughing at his trouble finding the head...:D He got it done, at least. Maybe he was thinking "What's up with this bald mouse?" :snake:

This is the story of Wiggles's first Reptilink. For those that don't know, Reptilinks are sausages specifically designed as reptile feeders. By blending together different types of feeders, Reptilinks provide a easy way to give your pet a varied diet. I got their most popular Megablend. It combines rabbit, guinea fowl, chicken and bull frog. Because Children's pythons eat a variety of prey in the wild, I want to provide similar variety in captivity.

I hadn't ordered before now because Reptilinks doesn't ship small orders. They require you to buy three items. They say it's not economical for them to ship less. One package of my links contains 40 links. Because I only have one small snake, that would last me a year. Three packages would last three years. I don't have a freezer that will keep them fresh for that long. They sell other things too, including live feeders, but nothing I was interested in. After some months, I managed to persuade my local exotic pet shop to buy the extras. A Black Friday deal from Reptilinks allowed me to sell at a price that interested them. I hope I'll be able to do this annually.

Once I had the links, my next problem was getting Wiggles to eat them. They are sausages. They both look and smell different than the hopper mouse he's used to. I was reasonably confident that I would ultimately succeed. Children's pythons are not picky eaters. I just wasn't sure how long it would take. It turns out not long. He took it on the first try.

Preparing it was really easy. I scented the link with a hopper mouse. I don't plan to keep doing this going forward, but I thought I should to ease the transition. To thaw it, I just held one frozen link (12g) in my hand until it heated up to 90 degrees. It only took a few minutes. It was much faster than thawing out a hopper. No water bowls or water changes required.

He took it from my tongs as usual. There was no hesitation. The only trouble he had was trying to find the head. Now, the sausage's blunt ends are wider than a hoppers nose. Once he gave up trying to find the head, he really struggled to get his mouth around that blunt end, but he ultimately succeeded. Next time, I'll try squeezing one end make it smaller.

Overall, I'm very happy with them. They are a higher quality feeder than I get from local shop, and my wife does mind keeping them in our freezer. While I plan to feed Reptilinks primarily from now on, I may occasionally feed Wiggles a hopper just to keep that option open in case I need it.