New odd hatchling.

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Originally Posted by soy.lor.n

what do you get when you cross a blue eyed lucy with a black eyed lucy?
Does that not get you a white snake? (I see how it wouldn't...)

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a snake that looks like it's been a victim of domestic violence?

Wow that looks great.

Ugh...now I want to start another new project. :)

A Super Sulfur x Super Mojave would give you all Sulfur Mojaves.

Dave

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

I was gonna say Super Sulfer also. For anyone that thinks the sulfer and fire are the same, how does this look like a Super Fire. IMO, tatally different genes. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if anyone were to try to prove that the fire and sulfur were compatible, that they would be proved wrong(I had to say this for all the sulfer pioneers out there:gj:)!! You may get white snakes, but, there will still be the Super Sulfer and Super Fire differences.

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I'll bet you're wrong, sulphur and fire will prove compatible.

Super fires often end up blotchy with yellow patches and similar markings to that snake.

That is the most extreme i've seen (hence my use of the word 'mucky' I agree it looks great but the all white snake is what must be considered the 'benchmark', I wasn't meaning it in a bad way, just couldn't think of a better word).

In short fire x fire DO produce some clean BlackELs and some less clean BlackELs, but which do you think some breeders choose to showcase/show off at shows and on websites? The clean ones.


Over in the UK fire has been worked with a bit (the BlackEL was actually proved over here and sold to the US) and it does look like selective breeding may play a big part. Clean all white BlackELs tend to produce very high contrast fires and more clean BlackELs when bred so holding back the brightest/most obvious fires and the cleanest of the BLackELs means you have a higher probabilty of reproducing more of the same.

Similarly I'd be interested to find out if this trait could be selectively bred creating a distinct looking BlackEL. Very simlar situation to the afore mentioned graphite ivories.

Like I said, I wasn't dissing the snake, I like it, but to me it shouldn't be taken as any kind of evidence that the sulphur and fire lines are not compatible as fires can also produce simlar looking animals but most breeders have focussed on removing the splodges, rather than keeping them in because on a less extreme animal it looks less like a funky new morph and more like an imperfect BlackEL with some yellow splodges. On an animal as extreme as this it looks nothing but stunning.I'd keep it around and see how it plays out when bred to brighter/darker sulphurs and cleaner/"mucky" super-sulphurs. Very interesting and a lovely animal.

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Originally Posted by soy.lor.n

what do you get when you cross a blue eyed lucy with a black eyed lucy?
Does that not get you a white snake? (I see how it wouldn't...)

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Well unless you hit double homozygousthen you'd get various combos, it would depend on the makeup of the BlueELused.

Using a mojo x lesser BlueEL for example you'd get sulphur mojaves and sulphur lessers with a chance of hitting the super sulphur-mojo-lesser (ie BlackEL and BlueEL in one snake) which will either be an amazing morph to behold OR an all white snake with either black or blue eyes whose genetics you'd never be able to prove without test breedings (which would therefore be unsellable at any price that would reflect it's true value as a hatchling, not a bad problem to have mind!)

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most breeders have focussed on removing the splodges, rather than keeping them in because on a less extreme animal it looks less like a funky new morph and more like an imperfect BlackEL with some yellow splodges

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Maybe in the UK but here, the Black eyed with yellow blotches are very desirable, after all, some of us think the yellow blotching could be worked and altered with different color palets down the line, don't get me wrong, an all white Black eyed is stunning but calling a yellow blotched Black eyed imperfect is wrong.

When all is said and done, we have Super Lessers and all the other pure whites, a bloched specimen is quite desirable in a rack beside all the other pure whities. :)

My thinking on the clean vs. dirty Black Eyed Lucies is, it is all in the eye of the beholder. I talked to a very cool guy who does alot of business in Asia and the UK, and he told me the exact same thing as the one guy in the post up above, that pure white sells. In Asia, and Europe, people seem to go for the clean look, while in the US, I think it is mixed.

I do not want to put down the pure white Lucies, because they are pretty sweet looking, but once you have one, would you want another? On the other hand, if you have a pure white Super Sulfur, wouldn't you want one with a bit of color to add to your collection, instead of another all white one? Unless you are trying to breed out the yellow spots, I would think you would want one of each, same as with the Super Mojaves, I have one with a purple head, would not mind having a Super Mojave/Lesser with a white head next.

I am sure I am not the only one to at one time or another, thought,"Is the Lucy a dead end project?" There is only so much you can do with a white snake, right? That is why I kind of like the fact that I hatched out this Super Sulfur instead of a pure white one. I just wonder if one day, pattern or color can be introduced into the yellow blotches?

I think this would make for a good poll question, anyone want to start one? What would you rather have, a blotchy Super or a Clean one?

Dave

Wait.. isn't a Sulfur a free standing morph? Or is it a combo of other morphs?

BTW MOST Awesome snake. Never had a desire for sulfers in the projects til I saw that. Good eyes on that project.

This is a Sulfur and normal for comparison. So far, it acts similar to a Fire, and produces a Black Eyed Lucy as a super. This one just came out odd.

Dave

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...IMGP2358-1.jpg


http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...l/IMGP2360.jpg

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Originally Posted by RegiusCo

Maybe in the UK but here, the Black eyed with yellow blotches are very desirable, after all, some of us think the yellow blotching could be worked and altered with different color palets down the line, don't get me wrong, an all white Black eyed is stunning but calling a yellow blotched Black eyed imperfect is wrong.

When all is said and done, we have Super Lessers and all the other pure whites, a bloched specimen is quite desirable in a rack beside all the other pure whities. :)

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I agree with this yellow blotch trait being desirable. White snakes are cool and all, but, personally I think they would become boring. My addiction to this thing stems from the many colors and patterns involved. If all there was to produce was white snakes I would definately loose interest.