BallpythonZone.com Split - Wild caught BP

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

It seems pointless to me to import a half-a-million ball pythons into the United States each year for possibly one or two new morphs each season, if that. Thoughts?

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Eddie I do understand your concerns and in some ways agree with them. I'm not against importation from the wild though because it is my understanding that the wild population of ball pythons is in quite good shape at present. As long as that situation exists, then a controlled sale from the wild isn't an issue for me.

What is an issue for me is how we treat these snakes coming in from the wild. I do think we need some sort of control on these large importers who treat these animals as a commodity and could care less how many die. This would include the large pet stores who both receive in and sell off unstarted, non-feeding, often sick fresh from Africa hatchlings. If we are to take a living thing from it's natural place in the wild, I believe it should be done responsibly, ethically and with a reasonable expectation that the animal deserves to survive and thrive in captivity.

I also see many buyers rushing off to grab up that "great deal" then complaining later they got a fresh import. Well if you look beyond your wallet you might see that nobody sells a ready to breed adult female BP for next to nothing. Our greed and need to find shortcuts to egg production is part of the problems that occur with the sale of WC adults (gravid or not).

I do have issues with importers bringing in gravid females simply to get eggs from them without any real intent to support the female properly. I've seen the results and rescued one of those females (possibly two but we cannot prove the other was a gravid import). Danu was a mess but is now okay. For me and Mike, there is no honor in treating any female creature like a disposable egg making machine. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

I do! Personally, I will not deal with anyone that deals with wild caught ball pythons. Ditch the wild caught and buy quality captive bred animals. Just my opinion.

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So you wouldnt deal with someone who even has LTC in their collection? they ARE afterall. Wild caught!

Thats pretty amusing. Good luck following through on that one.

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Originally Posted by mooingtricycle

So you wouldnt deal with someone who even has LTC in their collection? they ARE afterall. Wild caught!

Thats pretty amusing. Good luck following through on that one.

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Guess he can't deal with me then LOL. I've at least two confirmed WC adult females in our collection (Saoirse and Danu). They are two of the snakes I'm absolutely the most proud of. I've never hidden their history and will be extremely proud when they produce their first clutches with me and Mike. They would be techinically LTC's now but their beginnings were as adults in the wild.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Guess he can't deal with me then LOL. I've at least two confirmed WC adult females in our collection (Saoirse and Danu). They are two of the snakes I'm absolutely the most proud of. I've never hidden their history and will be extremely proud when they produce their first clutches with me and Mike. They would be techinically LTC's now but their beginnings were as adults in the wild.

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Me as well. I have one definite LTC female in my collection. She was given to me as such, and she should be producing her first clutch with me this year! I cant wait! :gj: Shes been a great snake!

I also have a wild caught sunbeam snake here too. Since there are very very very few captive breedings anywhere in the USA, i hope one day he will help me produce some CB stock for the future! :gj:

Wild caughts arent bad animals.... They ( and their determined keepers) are the reason we have the stock we do in captivity today. Im for Responsible importation, of course. But even many of the species that we keep in captivity today are the result of smuggling, believe it or not. ( at least, so im told by friends! :) )

I'm going to have macaroni and cheese for breakfast!! :banana:

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My opinion is that wild caught should stay in the wild. We have enough ball pythons in the United States as it is. Tons of breeders are pretty much giving away their cb normal animals because there are a half-a-million ball pythons being imported into the United States every year. I will not support this or anyone else who does.

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Then who do you buy from? Since EVERY ball python was wild caught that started our lovely collections we now have ;).Matter of fact EVERY pet we now have come from wild ancestors :P.

I look at it this way. Either they are brought over here where they actually have a chance to survive, OR they're going to stay over there where they will most likely be let to lay their eggs then get killed/skinned/eaten.

What would you rather have done to them? I'd rather them have a fighting chance and get healthy(yes, some never acclimate and die, but you know what, even CBB babies can be that way).

Give me a CH baby ball any day over a CBB baby. They are generally much more robust.

Just another point to add to what Becky wrote. Many people forget that the collection (within limitations that are in place) of wild Ball Pythons is a commodity for the countries in Africa where these snakes are present. There are meny people there that making a living and feed there families by collecting these animals. As many have previously stated, the population in the wild hasn't suffered from the collecting, at least according to the last surveys that were conducted.

If importation to the US was banned, and even if a ban was placed into the other large importing countries (i.e. European countries), the Ball Pythons would still get collected and exported. There is a large market for Ball Pythons in Eastern and South Eastern Asia for Ball Pythons. These countries are using the hides for numerous things, and also eat the meat.

Lastly, as for the discussion about Morphs, to the best of my knowledge, I am unaware of any Ball Python mutation that popped up out of breeding to Normals together. It has happened in other species (especially Corn Snakes) that new mutations were created by the luck of the breeder in putting two Heterozygous animals together without knowing. With that said, every Ball Python base mutation to date has come from the wild.

Just some food for thought,

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Originally Posted by Python Guru

the demand for ball pythons is very high, and all those snakes either get bred or purchased, if the demand is high then i don tthink its pointless, maybe you should sell ur snakes if it bothers you becuase at one point their parents or them were from the wild

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Don't you understand that for every animal that get sell in the pet store industry, there is a lot of them that die in the transport ?

I do understand that it's a work and a way for some people in africa to put food on the table. But that's another problem and it's call globalisation of the market. The world need to find a new way so everyone can live nicely. It's like saying, we should keep the manufactures open in africa, asia etc... where kids works cause it's the only way the family will be able to put food on the table.

The breeders are able to support the market (pet store etc...) with normals. At least in the BP sector. The problem is the suppliers to the pet store. The store have to deal with them and only them, and it's still cheaper to import millions of BP every year than buy from breeders. Also the fact that you have to deal with only one company (or person) to import, instead of a hundred of breeders.

It's cost less to import than to buy from breeders. That's the only reason they still import.

There is probably not much left morph still available in the wild. Not worth it IMO. But the probably that is only 1 is enough for people to buy them. It's like a lotery ticket, probability you win is low, but still a lot of people take it.

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Originally Posted by Watever

Don't you understand that for every animal that get sell in the pet store industry, there is a lot of them that die in the transport ?

I do understand that it's a work and a way for some people in africa to put food on the table. But that's another problem and it's call globalisation of the market. The world need to find a new way so everyone can live nicely. It's like saying, we should keep the manufactures open in africa, asia etc... where kids works cause it's the only way the family will be able to put food on the table.

The breeders are able to support the market (pet store etc...) with normals. At least in the BP sector. The problem is the suppliers to the pet store. The store have to deal with them and only them, and it's still cheaper to import millions of BP every year than buy from breeders. Also the fact that you have to deal with only one company (or person) to import, instead of a hundred of breeders.

It's cost less to import than to buy from breeders. That's the only reason they still import.

There is probably not much left morph still available in the wild. Not worth it IMO. But the probably that is only 1 is enough for people to buy them. It's like a lotery ticket, probability you win is low, but still a lot of people take it.

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Thanks, that is my exact thoughts on the matter.