Trip to MN to see Bruce Delles!

I will post some pics hopefully tonight...

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Originally Posted by jpman78

Hope this helps :)

If you look at the pics the first pics are of the special, aka "crystal" by how Bruce was referring to it.

Later there are pics of the pastel crystal, aka mojave crystal pastel by how Bruce was referring to it.

Crystals, aka Mojave Crystals by how Bruce was referring to it, look very similar to the Pastel Mojave Crystals....they are just a little darker....the head is where you really see the difference, it's noticably darker.

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I guess i sorta looked passed that pic. I fell stupid

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Originally Posted by southernboagurl

Very sweet group there. I really like the Pastel Calico myself :)

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Bruce's Pastel Calico's are INCREDIBLE....they are on my list.

-JonV

Tom, here is a copy of what bruce said over at the BLBC, hope it helps.

" Here is the conclusion that some of us that that have produced babies from a mojo crystal have come up with. In order to get what was being called a crystal, it is actually a combo of special/crystal & a mojo. People were calling it a crystal when it is actually a mojo crystal. Tom has bred a special/crystal to a special/crystal and produced a snake that was not a leucistic/white snake but did not have the pattern/color of the mojo crystal.
Two of us that have produced babies using a mojo crystal to various morphs have produced babies that either showed the mojo or the special/crystal trait in all of the young. So rather than calling the base morph one thing and the super another it just seems less complicated to call one the base name (special:AKA crystal and the other the super crystal. And when crossed into other morphs (mojo, etc) the other morph name & crystal. Lesser crystal, mojo crystal, pastel crystal, etc. This is just the opinion of myself and a few other people. I will state here and now that I mean NO DISRESPECT to Tom Baker who originally produced and named this morph. It just seems to be an easier thing to do. With all of the various combo's getting various "catchy" names that has noting to do with the morps involved is just going to create more confusion to all the newbies and people that are already into ball pythons trying to understand what's what. I do agree that the name crystal instead of special does not visually fit the morph but there are a lot of snakes that have names that have nothing to do with the visual or genetics of it. This is not a rant, just an opinion. For those that like the animals, thanks. And thank you John for posting them."

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Originally Posted by Python Dreams

I produced a Crystal by breeding a "Special" (normalish) to a Mojave... The following year I produced a 2.2 Crystals (one being paradoxed) and 1.1 Pastel Crystals... I did not produce anything Crystal related in 2007 and only produced 1.0 Super Crystal and 1.0 Pastel Super Crystal in 2008.... Now to myself, TSK, BHB, and others that have seen them it appears to have Mojave in them... But since then breeding has proven that you cannot produce a Crystal by breeding Crystal to normal. "Specials" and Mojaves appear to be on the same allele which makes it more of a Super. It is possible that a Super Crystal is a Super Special and breeding will possibly prove that out...

But as far as the naming goes... I think someone has gotte quite full of themselves. Bruce Delles is obviously quite a funny guy???? He has not produced a Crystal or Lesser Crystal and hes taken it on himslef to rename the project?:rolleye2: I guess I need to check with him and relabel all of these names to meet his needs!:P
When Barcyk produced his Crystal he got in touch with me and asked if I minded him calling his a Lesser Crystal. He knew that I originated this project and gave me that respect which shows a level of class that I guess some of us dont have.

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To be honest I dont really care what Bruce said over on BLBC... No disrespect to Tom Baker? No phone calls, no emails, nothing. And so these ridiculous people have bought into a project I started, have produced 0.0 Crystals and have taken that upon themselves to rename it?:colbert: The Crystal got its name from its translucent look as a baby which I would not expect any of these guys to understand since they have NEVER SEEN A CRYSTAL BABY!
Why dont they call Nerd, VPI, and John Berry and ask them to edit and re-print their books so that some dumbasses that have never produced a snake can rename it!:gj:

I agree. It was Tom's project - he produced them first so his name sticks. The 'special' could use a new name, but that's beside the point. They were way out of line.

I believe that Bruce in his post, and also Marc Bailey in his Reptile Radio appearance, were both trying to emphasize that things are getting crazy with the naming of these morphs.

Recall my (much disliked) post on how many morphs are possible given n genes, it's approximately 2^n power. Do you want to memorize 2^n names for a large value of n? I personally don't. How many genes are currently out there? Way more than 30, but enter 2^30 in your calculator and see what you get.

In addition, it is a bit overwhelming to new people into this hobby. Even the Barker's address the naming of a new morph in their book, hinting at the growing confusion regarding names.

JonV

Maybe it makes sense to rename the "Crystal", "Special" or whatever...but the way wasn`t the right one. Tom Baker should have been asked before. Just my opinion.

I agree. A formal name change should really go through the originator.

The way it was relayed to me by Bruce was how he and others who produced "special" offspring were referring to the "specials" to each other. I am probably most to blame here by referring to them how he did which was not a public name change but merely how he started referring to them to make sense to him and a couple others. I had assumed that the "others" included Tom but probably should have asked first. My apologies.

But for what it's worth to me it did seem to help me understand the genetics so I mistakenly thought it was suppose to be public.

I could see how it came about as well. With Crystal being a Mojave x Special kind of like a Bumblebee is a Pastel x Spider

The combo naming of Crystal Lesser at first made me think that it's a Lesser x Mojave x Special.....but in reality it's a Lesser x Special? I had thought it was just like if someone had a Lesser Bumblebee and it was actually Lesser x Spider.

Calling the specials, crystals instead, and using the "Mojave Crystal" for the Crystal makes the "formula" work for the Lesser Crystal for those not in the know. So I could see how this jump could be made to keep the other names inline.

I do think it's possible that after awhile when people start producing more and more Crystal combos with BEL complexes and probably will have to start saying what's in them just like the Lucies.

"I made a Crystal this year"
"What kind of Crystal"
"A Mojave Crystal"

Similarly the Super Crystal is believed to be a Special x Special? Or is it still up for debate if it's a Super Mojave Super Special?

I know I was under the impression that the special and BEL complexes are on the same allele? So a super mojave super special is akin to a super mojave super lesser. It can't be done?

If that's the case I know I was confused when the Super Crystal came out and I kept calling it a Super Special.....thinking it was Special x Special.

Again, I could see how the name change of the Special to Crystal makes the "Super Crystal" naming convention easier to understand if genetically it's a special x special.

So I could see where someone working with this morph might start referring things differently or however made sense to them. BUT, of course, should go through the originator for any formal name changes. I know I would want to be in the loop about changing the name of anything I had originated.

Hopefully, for the people VERY interested in this project, some light can be shed on what's what and how we can produce some of these awesome animals and what we should formally call them. I will call them whatever is decided but more importantly how can I make them! :)

Hope that was helpful and appropriate.

Thanks for starting an awesome morph Tom!

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Originally Posted by iurast

Maybe it makes sense to rename the "Crystal", "Special" or whatever...but the way wasn`t the right one. Tom Baker should have been asked before. Just my opinion.

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A good point!

JonV