Crazy, quail vs rat

The whole ethics issue was about how it was "unnatural" to feed quail... Am I missing something here? I don't see how feeding a diet that is apparantly healthier than a more common diet is unethical. The biggest concern with nutrition was that people felt that quail had less calcium, but in fact, they have more calcium and more protein than a common rat, with less fat. Most people are concerned about the high fat content of common rats, so, IMO, with the analysis, it seems like a win/win situation based on nutrition. Other issues were issues with runny stools, but once they adjust to a different diet, they don't have these runny stools. The last concern is that "they're made to eat rats", but most aren't even feeding them the rats that they would eat in their natural habitat. The whole "natural" arguement rubs me the wrong way, if you want natural balls, then move to Africa. It's not natural to have them in tanks and have them on a feeding schedule. Most things we do with captive animals are not natural, so why be concerned that the prey isn't the exact species that we think they mainly eat in the wild? ESPECIALLY considering that in the wild, they probably really WOULD eat any ground-dwelling birds, and if anything, it would be less natural to feed ONLY one food source.
So... if there aren't any valid concerns about balls eating quail, then why would that make me a bad ball owner because I want to feed them something that seems to have a better nutritional content, that won't potentially bite and injure the snakes when they're struck. (Yes, mine are fed live, and even though they're monitored, I've heard of bite stories even with MONITORED live feedings of rats). Just because someone doesn't do something exactly like someone else, does not mean that they're now a bad owner, especially when the method in question doesn't have any evidence against it. That's like anyone who feeds ASF rats saying that anyone who feeds common rats is a bad ball owner, because it's not a "natural" prey source.


Pshh, just re-read your post. Sorry for the long rant that doesn't make sense when your post is read properly. Quail have been raised just fine on it. Asking other quail breeders, they came up with the same assumption that I had, the guy apparantly did something else wrong if all of his flock died off. Either by feeding medicated food, or something else, but 24% protein chick starter is a commonly used diet for quail. ONE guy couldn't raise quail, so he blames it on the food he was using. Uncounted others have used the same type of food and have no problems with it. I use the same type, and this one guy goes off on a tangent about how I'm irresponsible and feeding garbage, simply because he couldn't manage to raise quail. Others have had great success with it, myself included, but, like I said, this one guy had a problem, so that makes everyone else irresponsible? NOBODY I've talked to so far has heard of any problems with using this feed, especially not mass die-offs, and especially not with chicks, like this guy apparantly had. There's more to his story than just feed, either he used medicated, it was raunchy feed, or SOMETHING, but it wasn't simply because 24% chick grower doesn't work on quail (because it does).

*Sigh* Sorry for the huge type-out, but seriously...

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Well, ball pythons don't have wings, or climb trees, so I REALLY doubt they feed on birds.

I personally would never by a snake from you if I found out you where feeding quail to them. Bird carry quite a few nasty things, even in captivity, also most of the world feeds rodents to there snakes, and don't want to spend the extra time switching snakes over to rodents after quail.

Rats are much easier, and much more time/space saving, and even more economical than quail to raise. If you want to buy a high quality poultry feed you will pay a pretty penny per 50lb bag, when you can pay 23 bucks for a bag of high quality rodent diet.

I wouldn't be worried about the natural part of it. We keep these snakes in modified shelving units, in tubs, with papertowels a ceramic bowl, and a flower pot for a hide...LOL.

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I appreciate the input. There are tests out there, I think they're called NPIP, that must be done if you plan to ship any eggs/birds to any other states. Very strict rules on it with quarantine and such after introduced birds. They must be done every so often, and are void if birds have been introduced. It's no guarantee, but, it beats nothing, and considering that balls can carry disease as well, and nobody tests them...
As for transitioning to rodents, valid point, except if you're only feeding the breeders quail, and if for some reason must sell the adults, would have to advertise that they were quail fed (don't most people already advertise what they are feeding on, even if it is a common feeder type anyways? Just good practice in general, IMO). But, the babies wouldn't have any issues outside of the norm if they were started on mice.

As far as economics/space/time/whatever, coturnix/japanese quail are actually extremely economical. They're one of the common ones used for meat and egg production because of their high rate of reproduction, they're quick to mature, and housing/feeding is minimal. Chick starter is generally around $15-$18 per bag. Specific gamebird food is around $20 per bag, all in 50lb bags. They are much cheaper to raise, the feeder dealers wouldn't sell them for cheaper than rats if they were so much more expensive to raise.

If I were you, I'd test it out. See if you can convert a few of your balls to quail, and if you're successful, track their digestive patterns and stool texture from week to week. Also, keep track of their weights and note any physical or behavioral changes.

Another concern would be the quality of the quail diet. People who breed rodents and want the best nutritional value for their snakes will often invest in high quality food, e.g. Mazuri, etc. Although I'm sure you have probably considered this too.

Interesting idea and thanks for sharing it.

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Another concern would be the quality of the quail diet. People who breed rodents and want the best nutritional value for their snakes will often invest in high quality food, e.g. Mazuri, etc. Although I'm sure you have probably considered this too.

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Fortunately, there's nothing wrong with feeding what I plan to feed, lol.

Thanks for the tips, I'll have to keep track.

Wow this guy comes on here and asks some info and people just flame him. Some of you are not worthy of your vetran title. If you dont have anything nice to say keep your mouths shut.

As for feeding quail to ball python there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. Verying the diet a bit is a good idea. Snakes are opportunists if they happen across a quail they will size it up and if it fits they will eat it. They dont just eat rats in the wild, anyone who believes that is deluded.

i think it just fine to feed our ball with quail..if you think quail are not clean enough,why dun u give them bath before feed to your ball,LOL..i dun know what retic keeper feed to their retic.but from my observation,they like to give rabbit etc to their rabbit..u know what,retic originated from where am i come from,and they always steal everything that can be their food,not just rabbit,but my chickens,my quails,bird and anything else..so u can feed ur ball as long as it fill their requirement,i mean feed them something they can eat,digest and poo without any problem,not something else like vege..just my humble opinion..different person has a different way,so no need to argue and fight,we just try to do our best to our ball..peace..

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Well, ball pythons don't have wings, or climb trees, so I REALLY doubt they feed on birds.

I personally would never by a snake from you if I found out you where feeding quail to them. Bird carry quite a few nasty things, even in captivity, also most of the world feeds rodents to there snakes, and don't want to spend the extra time switching snakes over to rodents after quail.

Rats are much easier, and much more time/space saving, and even more economical than quail to raise. If you want to buy a high quality poultry feed you will pay a pretty penny per 50lb bag, when you can pay 23 bucks for a bag of high quality rodent diet.

I wouldn't be worried about the natural part of it. We keep these snakes in modified shelving units, in tubs, with papertowels a ceramic bowl, and a flower pot for a hide...LOL.

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Quail are ground birds. Ball pythons do eat birds, and other small animals other than rodents in the wild as well as climb trees from time to time. They are no where near arboreal but they do climb in the wild. I have a video of my BP eating a mouse from a branch much like a tree snake would.

Its my understanding that rodents are their primary prey and I would be worried that a complete conversion to quail would result in a dietary surplus or deficit that we do not currently understand. I think doing a study would be great for the community though. If you aren't a scientist, do some reading on the scientific method and go to town. Just because you don't have a degree in biology (or do you?) doesn't mean you can't contribute to the worlds understanding of Ball Pythons.