Riddle me this you financially gifted types

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Let the people decide what to do. Why bailout companies that have proven they cannot be made profitable?

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And why bailout people who have proven that they cannot be made responsible? Sure, there are a handful of people out there who are responsible with their lives, and even rise and fall with the understanding that they make their lives.

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Also, I never said it was perfect, what I said was, why toss good money after bad? Why not give it to the people who will lose homes and jobs and their very lives and then let THEM be responsible for themselves?

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But they weren't responsible for themselves if they're in those situations. You're just throwing bad money at more bad either way. The only difference that I see is that giving money to those irresponsible people is more personal, and therefore is the "lesser of two evils."

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Would you rather stay in the same downward spiral or give EVERYONE the same opportunity, start EVERYONE at the same spot, and let THEM decide what's going to happen.

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And that's the beauty of this country and the principles it was built upon. We RISE and FALL on our own merit, on our own hard work. If you "spread the wealth around" why would we want to work harder? Why would we want to be millionaires? Why would we care if our kids went to college?

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If no one was in fear of losing all they have, what would they do? Maybe help others less fortunate? Maybe take a chance on being happy? Maybe just hole up and watch the world go by.

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You obviously don't understand the human state of mind. Human beings are greedy. Human beings don't care. Perhaps one or two humans might care, but humans as a whole don't give a poop.

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If Americans had no debt, what would we be capable of? If we didn't sweat it out day after day making money to pay interest on loans, what could happen?

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Americans would be capable of sloth. We would forget everything we fought for. We would watch the foundation of our very existence crumble beneath us.

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Sure, some dopes would blow it all. Where would they blow it? They'd be buying things. Who would be selling those things? Where would those things being sold come from?

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They'd be coming from China, Kenya, Malaysia. -Smiles.- That's where they'd be coming from.

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Suppose, and I know this is far fetched, some people who actually cared about others and this very globe upon which we live, did something helpful for NO GOOD REASON. Suppose that instead of seeking ever more profit it became fashionable to seek good for all of us. Suppose prices didn't skyrocket just because everyone had money. Suppose people got smart and realized that this was a one time leveling of the field and that if they blew it, there was no second chance?

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Contrary to what you might believe, most people like how we live. Most people want to work hard for what they've earned. Most people want to rise by the sweat of their brow. Not everyone wants this to be an even ground. It defeats the beauty of capitalism.

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I suppose I am just, as ever, a dreamer.

But what if it worked....

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It wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by lenastorms

IF we took that 700 billion and divided it up among every citizen in the USA, all 300 million of them, each person would receive 23 million dollars.

Do you suppose a few of us could pay all our debts with that?

Why not do that?

Or am I completely off?

I agree with that! I don't think your off at all. Give the $$$$ to the people who need it not the banks. They are going to have to turn around and pay the banks with it anyway. So the bank still gets theirs and Joe Blow gets to keep his cars, house, etc. I've heard other people talk about this too. Sounds good in theory ;)

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I would def. beable to stim. the economy and have some to spare!!!!

The $2,300 number is correct. Where do you think that money is coming from? It is nothing more than redistribution of wealth.

Here, this might help with your math. It isn't the $700 billion, but the first $85 billion: http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/dividend.asp

I'm going to put my tin foil hat back on now and wait for my check.

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Originally Posted by Soterios

You're grasping at straws, at best. You still haven't provided any real proof. Don't just blindly follow rumors.

Here is proof and you're right just don't follow rumors seek the truth. I believed the propaganda till I seeked the truth. Will you seek it or will you just watch and believe the news?

Fabled Enemies
Fabled Enemies (Super High Quality, full movie)



If the American public was as responsible as you make them out to be in your post, the country wouldn't be in this mess. Giving irresponsible people money will make things worse. Look what happens to poor people who win the lottery. They're poor again within the year.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

The problem is banks got greedy, people got scared and the market went to pot.

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The problem is the government forced banks to give loans to people that could not afford them. Then the banks, in an attempt to make some of their money back sold these loans but mixed them in with good loans. Finally after some time, those that were buying up these bad loans realized that they were worth nothing, and cracked the ice. Hence the reason they call it the sub prime crisis.

Anyway, about giving the bailout money to the people. I do not agree with that any more than bailing out companies that were irresponsible.

What I do agree with is having a tax holiday for every tax payer. Use that 700billion to finance the federal government for three months, and during that three months do not take any federal taxes from any tax payer. Imagine not having to pay taxes for three months.

At the pay level I will be getting at this new job, I would have an extra fifteen hundred a month in my pocket. And as something like 60% of the retail sales come from the top 15% of tax payers, you would see a marked increase in spending.

Pardon my initial typo if you please, it was supposed to be 2 point 3 million in my math. I like mine better too.

I have this to say about the poor who get rich and then become poor again. Why do you care?

A rich man can be just as stupid as a poor one.

BUT, if you tell them that this is it, no more social security, no more welfare, no more handouts, you take this and you survive or deal with the consequences, then what? Why not?

IF you're not smart enough to realize that if you did nothing at all but bank that money, provided banks are solvent, at just 3% interest, that would be more than 60K a year. You can live well and pay up front for everything you need if you're single and making that much. If you're married, it's doubled.

Put on a flat tax, start everyone at zero, and go from there.

Folks will buy houses, which puts money back into the economy. I think something like 80% of Americans don't own their own homes. If all of them paid off those loans, banks would have plenty of cash for anyone who wanted or needed to borrow it. If you're not smart enough to take a gift like that and pay off your debts, then get used to apartment life.

This system is broken.

But, since 2300.00 won't even pay an average mortgage for one month where I am, it's all moot.

The fact is the country could never get out of debt because most of these loans were created out of thin air by the Federal Reserve.

YouTube - Ron Paul on Federal Reserve, banking and economy

Where's the gold?

In order to do math with lots of zeros drop the zero's. 700 billion is 700,000 million divide by 300 million you can drop the millions. that leaves 700,000/300 now drop two zero's from each side and you get 7000/3. Remember we are working with dollars here. and 3 zero's equals 1 thousand. so 7 thousand dollars for every 3 people or 2333.33 for each person.

That being said the problem is that money has no value at all. Its paper. The only value it has is the value that other people give it. It stopped being backed by gold and silver years ago. Since its not backed by gold and silver its value is subjective.

If we do not bail out the banks and the auto makers then they fail. If banks fail then no one can borrow money and because of all the other things people have said no one can buy houses and cars. Without the auto makers people don't have jobs. Not just the people who make the cars mind you. The people who sell burgers to the people who make the cars, the people who mine steal to make the cars, the people who sell insurance to the people who make the cars. Basically everyone gets hit. How hard is all about how close you are money wise to the auto makers.

The bail out sucks but so does a great depression. I forget who posted it but start growing gardens and raising chickens.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

In order to do math with lots of zeros drop the zero's. 700 billion is 700,000 million divide by 300 million you can drop the millions. that leaves 700,000/300 now drop two zero's from each side and you get 7000/3. Remember we are working with dollars here. and 3 zero's equals 1 thousand. so 7 thousand dollars for every 3 people or 2333.33 for each person.

That being said the problem is that money has no value at all. Its paper. The only value it has is the value that other people give it. It stopped being backed by gold and silver years ago. Since its not backed by gold and silver its value is subjective.

If we do not bail out the banks and the auto makers then they fail. If banks fail then no one can borrow money and because of all the other things people have said no one can buy houses and cars. Without the auto makers people don't have jobs. Not just the people who make the cars mind you. The people who sell burgers to the people who make the cars, the people who mine steal to make the cars, the people who sell insurance to the people who make the cars. Basically everyone gets hit. How hard is all about how close you are money wise to the auto makers.

The bail out sucks but so does a great depression. I forget who posted it but start growing gardens and raising chickens.

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You talk like them failing will make it so the jobs go bye bye. That will not happen. Go chapter 11 and re structure. That way they can get out of the cruddy labor contracts, and become profitable again.

In 2007 both GM and Toyota sold 9.3 million cars worldwide. Toyota made $19billion and GM lost $38 billion.

Either you let them go under now and go chapter 11, or you give them money, just to have them go under three years from now. With those labor costs, and what not, they can not be profitable.

Here's my question, where does all this leave me?

Me being a college student. Myself and my peers, either right now or in a few years will be looking for jobs and trying to get ourselves started. Tons of people are losing their jobs so how are the new generations going to find jobs? "Mom and Dad" can't support us forever, heck a lot of people's parents can't financially support their college either.

I still don't understand why the HECK people are still "paying" for 40k+/year private schools, by "paying" I mean taking out student loans up the yin-yang. Sorry if this is offensive to anyone but I just don't understand it. How is the having the "big name" on your diploma really worth being saddled with years and years of debt?

In our state a huge portion of student loans just fell through this past year. (link to article) That means a lot of people are taking time off and trying to figure out how to pay for school. I go to an in-state school on a partial scholarship - best decision I ever made was turning down the "big name" private colleges - but I'm scared that (comparatively) low in-state university prices are not going to stay low, for any state. And that attending college for a lot of people will no longer be feasible by any stretch of the imagination.

I won't go as far to say this is the end of higher education, but with the credit collapse I am forseeing a lot less people going to college a few years down the line...