Best big snake?

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Originally Posted by clapton924

Are burms also considered "intelligent" ?

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The extent of my burm's intelligence: "If I bang on the walls of my cage hard enough, maybe they'll think I'm hungry and feed me." and "Oh! poo makes a good pillow!"

Of our four snakes, the burm is definitely the most interactive and fun to watch. He knows you're there and he wants you to FEED HIM NOW OMG! *slighter-slither-tip-over-water-bang-on-door*

Everyone else just sleeps/hides.

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

Talk to any Retic, or AfRock keeper any you will understand. Not only are they incredibly alert snakes....they will follow your movement, size you up (including possible prey), "learn" their surroundings, and can, to an extent, differentiate between people, and places. They are very clever, intelligent snakes. It takes first hand experience to truly understand, and admire their intelligence.

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These snake no matter how large do not have a brain big enough to be what would be considered intelligent, or clever. I will give you alert, but the rest of that not so much. You show me a burm that can pick a lock and escape I will take it all back.

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Originally Posted by Chuck

These snake no matter how large do not have a brain big enough to be what would be considered intelligent, or clever. I will give you alert, but the rest of that not so much. You show me a burm that can pick a lock and escape I will take it all back.

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They're not primates. Simply said. They don't use tools, nor anything of the likes. How many other animals considered intelligent, do you see "picking locks"? I've never seen a dog pick a lock. Neither have I seen a pig, nor cat. Come to think of it, the only animals I can think of known to do that are primates...

However they can judge people to an extent on who is who, and differentiate with their heat signatures, body size, body shape, and smell. It has been seen and proven. Otherwise, hook training would play no part in their keeping, nor their survival when judging the size of prey, where to catch, when to catch, etc. They are intelligent animals along the lines of boidae...some of the brightest. Claim hook training is just conditioning, or claim it doesn't work at all....but conditioning is part of learning...even for these "dumb" animals as you so claim. Don't believe it? Then don't. I'm not here to preach to you, or argue. I'll simply give the information from first hand "experience". It is your choice to accept it or move on.

I am not arguing this with you either. when I said a lock picking snake I was being a little extreme. It has been scientifically proven that an animals brain size relates directly to its intelligence that is all I am saying.

Now doubt snakes can tell different sizes and shapes other wise how would they be able to tell what they could eat and what is too big, but are you saying that a snake can tell who is who from their heat signatures. Like a snake could tell the difference between you and me based off my heat signature. How has that been proven? Now maybe a snake could tell you from me by our smell but again how do you prove that beyond you own personnel feeling about how a snake interacts with you. I think that we want to project how we see the world because that is our only frame of reference and who is to say that any animal interrupts the world the same way we do.

I never said these animals were dumb so please don't put words in my mouth. This has nothing to do with being smart or dumb that is what I am saying. These animals act on instinct period, and to think otherwise is the setup to how people end up on the news killed by there large constrictor.

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Originally Posted by Chuck

You show me a burm that can pick a lock and escape I will take it all back.

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I guess you've never heard the story of a retic escaping its (locked) cage only to get into another males (locked) cage to fight to the death.

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Originally Posted by Chuck

Now doubt snakes can tell different sizes and shapes other wise how would they be able to tell what they could eat and what is too big, but are you saying that a snake can tell who is who from their heat signatures. Like a snake could tell the difference between you and me based off my heat signature. How has that been proven? Now maybe a snake could tell you from me by our smell but again how do you prove that beyond you own personnel feeling about how a snake interacts with you. I think that we want to project how we see the world because that is our only frame of reference and who is to say that any animal interrupts the world the same way we do.

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Oh believe me, I know quite a few people with retics that would be considered 'puppy dog tame' with one person and a major d1ck to the rest of the world.

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

Being around them, and keeping them first hand are two different things. I'd take the advice of the experienced keeper, over the guy who's "seen stuff" with an animal shelter before...

Honestly, if it were that hard or impossible to care for them, don't you believe the market would have never held to begin with? As well as that, the information available today would have never been gathered, nor the variety of species never established.

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It really irritates me when people push large constrictors especially when you are talking about a 2nd snake for someone. Seriously with all the legislation upcoming. The wild breeding populations of burms that were dumped in the everglades and are now thriving, which I am sure has nothing to do with giant being hard or impossible for most people to care for. I am just wondering when large constrictor keepers and breeders are going to take some responsibility for there hand in all of this or are they just going to ride this into the ground. I am sure I will get flack for saying this but honestly I don't care.

I could go on but I fear my mouth will get the better of me as it tends to do. I will say for the original poster that I think a Jungle would be a nice larger snake maybe a coastal if you want the high side around 10 feet. I am not really a Boa guy so I can't comment on them at all.

Chuck

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Originally Posted by RKO

I guess you've never heard the story of a retic escaping its (locked) cage only to get into another males (locked) cage to fight to the death.

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Now see I had not heard that one, well there you have it and I stand corrected LOL

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Originally Posted by Chuck

It really irritates me when people push large constrictors especially when you are talking about a 2nd snake for someone. Seriously with all the legislation upcoming. The wild breeding populations of burms that were dumped in the everglades and are now thriving, which I am sure has nothing to do with giant being hard or impossible for most people to care for. I am just wondering when large constrictor keepers and breeders are going to take some responsibility for there hand in all of this or are they just going to ride this into the ground. I am sure I will get flack for saying this but honestly I don't care.

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You see, this what irritates me about "non-giant" owners. You complain and nag about how inexperienced people are, and how other people push ownership on others. This person came here looking for information on the best giant, and I laid it out solid for him, as such....

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

No giant is a good beginner giant. Period. They all have different aspects that make them both good, and bad choices as far as attitude, husbandry, medical aspects, etc. Look through and pick the species that best catches your interest. The one you love the most. Do the mentioned....learn about it, read about it, talk to experienced individuals about it, and get hands on with it....then when you feel you are ready, make the plunge. Good luck in whatever you choose

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All the non-giant keepers do is see something, and comment, with no true knowledge on what is actually going on. As breeders, it is not our responsibility to be these keepers "moms". If they want a retic, burm, anaconda, afrock, etc, it is THEIR responsibility to determine whether or not they can possibly care for the animal or not; not ours. The most we can do is educate them on the animals. We do not know what their situation is, how much money they make, where they live, or how much knowledge they have...and screening customers....what good is it when you ask simple questions, and they can quickly google them to find an answer. Answers from experienced keepers on forums will even be brought up on google, giving them a quick in....

As for difficulty on keeping them...how difficult is it to keep one, with your knowledge on them? How many giants do you own?

Their care is completely straight forward. They will even feed when ill, sickly, injured, or stressed. Try getting a Ball Python to do that. Their husbandry aspects such as heating, and humidity....very simple. Much more so than with Balls, and the various other pythons available. You don't need hides for them, or anything. The "only" difficulty is cost, and cost isn't all that much now a days with the availability of larger prey from feed suppliers, and lower priced plastic caging made from companies such as Animal Plastics. That takes the costly expense out of custom built caging... Safety is a fairly easy aspect, as long as you learn from the right sources.

The everglades...bs, straight up. If it were being just giants released due to that, then how are there Lemurs, Komodo Dragon, Nile Monitor, Crocodile monitor, various paradise birds, and a large other list of species THRIVING in the everglades? Even various species of theraphosids, and plants have been thriving for decades. Still going to blame that "inexperienced" keeper? Or how about the destruction of all those homes, zoological institutions, rehab centers, and various other facilities during the hurricanes? Ever think hurricanes had something to do with it? What about Green Iguana? Green Iguana have been documented in the southern part of Florida since the 1920's, if not earlier. Long before majority of the exotic pet trade really boomed.

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

You see, this what irritates me about "non-giant" owners. You complain and nag about how inexperienced people are, and how other people push ownership on others. This person came here looking for information on the best giant, and I laid it out solid for him, as such....




All the non-giant keepers do is see something, and comment, with no true knowledge on what is actually going on. As breeders, it is not our responsibility to be these keepers "moms". If they want a retic, burm, anaconda, afrock, etc, it is THEIR responsibility to determine whether or not they can possibly care for the animal or not; not ours. The most we can do is educate them on the animals. We do not know what their situation is, how much money they make, where they live, or how much knowledge they have...and screening customers....what good is it when you ask simple questions, and they can quickly google them to find an answer. Answers from experienced keepers on forums will even be brought up on google, giving them a quick in....

As for difficulty on keeping them...how difficult is it to keep one, with your knowledge on them? How many giants do you own?

Their care is completely straight forward. They will even feed when ill, sickly, injured, or stressed. Try getting a Ball Python to do that. Their husbandry aspects such as heating, and humidity....very simple. Much more so than with Balls, and the various other pythons available. You don't need hides for them, or anything. The "only" difficulty is cost, and cost isn't all that much now a days with the availability of larger prey from feed suppliers, and lower priced plastic caging made from companies such as Animal Plastics. That takes the costly expense out of custom built caging... Safety is a fairly easy aspect, as long as you learn from the right sources.

The everglades...bs, straight up. If it were being just giants released due to that, then how are there Lemurs, Komodo Dragon, Nile Monitor, Crocodile monitor, various paradise birds, and a large other list of species THRIVING in the everglades? Even various species of theraphosids, and plants have been thriving for decades. Still going to blame that "inexperienced" keeper? Or how about the destruction of all those homes, zoological institutions, rehab centers, and various other facilities during the hurricanes? Ever think hurricanes had something to do with it? What about Green Iguana? Green Iguana have been documented in the southern part of Florida since the 1920's, if not earlier. Long before majority of the exotic pet trade really boomed.

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i completly agree with andrew.
and trust me, he knows his stuff.