Is there a Morph you will never own/breed due to genetics?

ya definetly i would never breed dermas

I can't think of any that I wouldn't work with. There is the kinking issue with caramels, but I'd only buy one from a line that has been outcrossed enough where there wasn't any kinking. Plus kinking can happen to any animal, so that's not reason enough for me not to work with them.

And same thing with spiders; my spider is one of my best eaters and growers - but has a little bit of wobble. It's not so extreme where its alarming, but I think it gives her personality. I don't see any suffering and as far as I can tell it doesn't impair the animal in any way. So I will continue to work with spiders.

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Originally Posted by Morphie

Since the spider morph does not have a visible super form, it could be that the severe wobblers are homozygous for spider (or maybe homozygous spider genotypes are lethal and the eggs are reabsorbed so you'd never even know), and perhaps the spider and wobble genes are closely linked (at two loci that are physically near to eachother on a given chromosome). It'd be interesting to collect data from the large scale breeders to try and figure out what's going on with these morphs that seem to associate themselves with deformities (and perhaps figure out how to avoid them).

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The linked theory is interesting. If that's the case, would be nice to find one that's had a recombination event that could separate the wobble from the spider gene...

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

I am going to have to disagree with you again. I do not believe that my spiders will have wobbles. I believe that the line that I bought into is a clean line. I will breed my line, and if one day my spiders start wobbling, then I will stop breeding them.

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I thought that there was only the single line of spider.

On a side note, this thread might be more informative without all the opinions and theories presented as facts. That's jmho.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

On a side note, this thread might be more informative without all the opinions and theories presented as facts. That's jmho.

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Agreed there!

Spiders spin....Caramels kink...

Guess what? Normals, Albinos and any other morph can spin or kink. I don't happen to put spinning and kinking in the same category as far as severity goes. Bad kinks can severely twists areas of the spine making even eating impossible. I have seen some severe spinners that eat and grow normally. Do what you feel comfortable with and be honest with your customers.

normals there,s just way to many of em:D

womas for me.

also anything that spins or wobbles. if I get one that does that hatch out I will prob freeze it.

Spiders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Neuro problems are too unpredictable! Especially if a customer wants to know why 6 months after they purchased their bundle of joy it is now doing cartwheels. A big breeder may look at this situation and toss another spider their way or even a refund, problem solved lets breed more spiders. Now I stopped working with spiders when I realized that as a small breeder, I may not have a replacement or the cash available if such a situation should arise and that is not acceptable to me. There are too many morphs out there to waste my time on one that has a very high % of having neuro problems that may show up at hatching or a year down the road. Way too much unpredictability for me to be comfotable with them, just a personal choice!

I do hope those that continue to breed spiders do so in a responsible manner, since the history and secrecy surrounding this morph is an embarrasment to herptoculture! Some may hate on me for that comment, but when I bought my spider in 2005 the wobble issue was always swept under the rug. Honestly, I feel like I was ripped off on that purchase and that the deliberate attempt to hide the wobble issue is a case of "consumer" fraud.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

I thought that there was only the single line of spider.

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your thinkin right!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

I am going to have to disagree with you again. I do not believe that my spiders will have wobbles. I believe that the line that I bought into is a clean line. I will breed my line, and if one day my spiders start wobbling, then I will stop breeding them.

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of course your going to say that "your" line is clean... you think the breeder you bought your snake from or ANY breeder is going to admit they are producing defective snakes.... you obviously havent read about many account of the wobbles

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

I thoughtfully disagree. My spiders do not show signs of wobbles. I personally think spiders are great. They are my best eaters and breeders. My male even gave me twins. Can't beat that...

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I agree spiders are great! I own 5 spiders and not one shows any signs of wobbles. I currently own spiders at various ages and I take them out pretty often to show off to friends and never have I seen anything out of the ordinary.

Maybe I just got lucky? I got most of my stock from either Amir or Jon over at Next World Exotics.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

I thought that there was only the single line of spider.

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Yes, all spiders came from one wild caught spider, but that is the beauty of selective breeding.

Here is my theory, the first spider bred and produced offspring. Some of the offspring had major wobble, and some had less. The ones that had less bred and had offspring with the same results, but eventually the offspring with less had even less. This process continued until some of the offspring did not wobble at all. So, the ones with no wobbles breed and all of the offspring has no wobbles. They also call this natural selection. We are just speeding up the process.