If up to weight, would you breed a 1 year old female?

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Originally Posted by Koolaid

What about BP's in the wild... I'm sure there are girls out there that eat more than we provide and breed earlier than we set them up... I guess it all boils down on the girl :)

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They are bred small. I have the opportunity to go through about 100 or so WC gravid female ball pythons a year. Some of them are good sized, what would be breeders for us. Some are large, even seen one 6'. Then some are small. I had one who was 700 grams after laying a clutch of 7 eggs. I've seen some that look like they were maybe 500-600 grams before they were bred to a male. Actually I should say mating.

Absolutely not--I want my females to reach their full potential. Just think...if a female is 1500 grams at 1 year old, how big is she going to be at 3?

I have a theory that ball pythons bred early will lay small clutches...possibly always. And that those bred at age 3 or more AND over 1500 grams will lay larger clutches, consistantly.
I intend to set up some experiments down the road to test this idea. If it's true, then all of this impatience I see is definitely NOT worth it.

I have a giant female who layed 13 eggs last season. Compare that with 4 eggs...no contest.
Her babies are growing like weeds. I wouldn't be surprised if they're over 1500 grams by age 2, if not sooner...but I won't breed them until they are at least 3.

Well I have an early 08 CH female that if she keeps eating like she is will pass the 1000g mark easily by the end of the year. I still wouldn't be comfortable breeding her A) because she is my first BP and has a soft spot in my heart so I would be devestated if something went wrong and we lost her and B) I just am not in that much of a rush to start. I think based on what I've seen 1500g is a good weight if they are producing follicles. I have a 1650g female that will be breeding this year but she's an 04 and has been bred previously just need to decide which male to throw at her :D

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

I have a giant female who layed 13 eggs last season. Compare that with 4 eggs...no contest.
Her babies are growing like weeds. I wouldn't be surprised if they're over 1500 grams by age 2, if not sooner...but I won't breed them until they are at least 3.

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what was the average hatchling weight?

I didn't really grab an average, but virtually none of them were under 70 grams--I just glanced at a few and came up with 2 that were 72, and one that was 76 out of the egg. Decently big babies.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

I have a theory that ball pythons bred early will lay small clutches...possibly always. And that those bred at age 3 or more AND over 1500 grams will lay larger clutches, consistantly.

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Actually, that's not a new idea .... Tracy Barker of VPI has been promoting that for probably almost 10 years now, maybe longer ... I'm pretty sure she has data to back it up as well, she's meticulous about keeping records. I can't remember if it's covered in the book though. :confuzd:

Hope this helps.

-adam

I didn't think it was a new idea--I've seen it talked about here and there, and came across it suggested by an African House Snake breeder, too. Thanks, Adam. I have the NERD book, but the not the VPI one yet ($).

I'll have to see if I can get in touch with her sometime, and see if she DOES have records on it. (Or if the data is correlated...).

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Originally Posted by andwhy6

my female was 16 months and 1900 grams and im cuttin her 6 eggs on thursday. it was some het on het albino action so im hoping for some white babies :D

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Good luck with the getting some albinos! I bred two pastel females this past season also at about 16 months old and the first one gave me six eggs with 2.1 Super Pastel and the second gave me one fertile and three duds with .1 Super Pastel.

As to the OPs original question.

If you are a curious person interested in pushing boundarys then go for it and see what happens. For me there was no way I had the patience to wait one more year to produce some Super Pastels.

If you like the comfort of established protocols and are of a more patient personallity then you might feel better giving her one more year.

Not that I am promoting it or dismissing it, but in today’s world of morphs waiting 3 years puts you behind the 8 ball (no pun intended Adam). With people working now with 2 and 3 gene animals on a regular basis and if you are just starting out (particularly with recessive Hets) if you are waiting till the girls are 3 years of age you will be on the back side of the curve, way back. Think about it. If your goal is to produce something like a Snow morph and you are starting with 1.1 Het Axanthics and 1.1 Het Albinos that you just bought this year you will finally be breeding for a chance at axanthics and albinos in 2011 and they will not be born until 2012. Now you have to raise them up to breed in 2015 for the double het babies in 2016. Raise them up 3 more years and your breeding them in 2019 season and getting babies in 2020. By 2020 other breeders will be working on their four recessive gene or more animals! While yes I think certain conditions should be met before breeding any animal, I also think you have to use some forward thought about your goals! Also on the same note since I have yet to experience everything in the hobby and am still learning (not that I think the learning will ever really stop) I tend to lean on sources and spend money where other people may not, such as right now all of our females and males see a vet to get a clean bill of health before they start breeding. One day maybe I will have a really good understanding of ball python health, but currently so many things exist that don't have readily visible signs an amateur such as I could miss I believe it is worth the money. Also my wife and I are discussing down the line after a female lays her eggs taking her back to the vet after a couple weeks of zoning for another check up on her health. (Most vets give a group discount if you take a large number of the same type of animal in at the same time, our last bill for 10 snakes read as a snake herd. Help I'm being stampeded by a herd of snakes! :O)

On a side note my wife is looking into going back to school for vet tech or an actual vet. This will be her third degree and I don't think she still knows what she want to do for a living once she grows up! :weirdface

I'm just not willing to risk an animal not reaching her full potential simply because I was impatient and wanted to 'get ahead of the game'. I can't see that it's worth it in the long run. (I want all my females to lay 13 egg clutches, lol).