Feeding live rats (somewhat gruesome story beware plz)

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Originally Posted by anendeloflorien

Do you remember where you ordered it from? I've got a foam cooler that I've been using for a CO2 chamber which works well because if it ever gets torn up it's like $1.50 for a new one but I might try and make something a little more permanent and maybe a bit smaller. I'll look around online though and see if I can find parts to make it.

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Well, I think we just bought the equipment on Ebay. The hose and ... (bear with me here) the little plug that you mount into the side of your chamber to hook up your CO2 hose and tank to.

Don't know what it's called, but yea... I'm pretty sure it was on ebay. We use a clear tub to put down our animals so we can see when they have passed so we don't waste any gas.

I won’t talk about the all live vs. f/t debate because to me there is none, feed what works and is convenient for you however keep in mind that if you want to feed f/t because of the gruesome scene you just experienced just remember that the same if not worse (rat exploding) can happen when feeding f/t.

It's not so much that the sight of it bothered me Deb it's just the fact that the animal was suffering so much. It's just something I would really like to avoid in the future.

I'm not trying to raise the F/t or live debate. People feed what they feel to be best for their snakes. If it truly does come down to this snake not eating anything but live that's what I will do but I'll exhaust all efforts to get her to eat F/t first. The health of my snakes always comes first in my mind.

My own convenience has very little to do with it. I have rats anyways so it's not a big deal for me to breed them and raise up the babies for a couple months. I honestly don't like buying f/t because I always wind up with some that don't get eaten or go bad in the freezer and it winds up costing me more money than it's worth for my own "convenience" just to have to drive and get them!

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feed what works and is convenient for you

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This is where it bothers me a bit.
First and foremost we should put all "keeper convenience" aside here and aim at creating a stable, healthy environment for the snake, where they can live and practice natural behaviors as if they were on their own in the wild. I say it all the time... We will never reproduce nature in a cage, but as long as we are keeping these animals captive, that should be the ultimate goal. Not creating an enviroment that is convenient for us, while giving the snake the bare minimun of wht they need to eat, poop, and shed. That is the main point I am getting at.

It was said a snake can be "conditioned" to eat FT? Your right, it can... But should we be condtioning an animal away from their natural behaviors for our convenince? You are taking an animal who is a natural born predator made to hunt and kill small animals, and conditioning them to eat dead animals for your convenience. Hmmm...No sir I don't like it.

No offense meant to anyone, I know not everyone agrees with me... I just thought I would share my views on the subject.

I am an advocate for the animal before the hobby.

Sorry guys, I'll get off my soap box...didn't mean to stray.

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conditioning them to eat dead animals for your convenience. Hmmm...No sir I don't like it.

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Don't you think that keeping those animals CAPTIVE is for your own convenience too or it is for the snake's convenience? :rolleyes:

I will stand by what I said each owner should feed what works and what is convenient for them without being judged by either side.

IT happens, part of life.

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Originally Posted by SoCaliSon

But should we be condtioning an animal away from their natural behaviors for our convenince? You are taking an animal who is a natural born predator made to hunt and kill small animals, and conditioning them to eat dead animals for your convenience. Hmmm...No sir I don't like it.

No offense meant to anyone, I know not everyone agrees with me... I just thought I would share my views on the subject.

I am an advocate for the animal before the hobby.

Sorry guys, I'll get off my soap box...didn't mean to stray.

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It's convienent and keeps the animal alive and thriving. Wonderful to me!


We cannot decide how or what our animals think about what we feed them, but if my snakes all "hunt" their FT rat on tongs, strike, constrict and kill the already dead animal just like they would have in the wild, then how are we stripping them of the stimulation and behaviors when they react the same as if they were in the wild or killing a live rat?


The only thing I can think of to make it even more natural and realistic, would be to let my snake run around in a beautifully recreated savannah. Put the rat in a hole and pretend to be puppet master inside a small rodent hole to give the "natural" experience of a hunt for the snake.

BUT! Since I have limited means to do that, I consider the strike, constrict and killing behavior my snakes do with FT on tongs is as close as I can come to "au natural" without having to hear or see a suffering animal.


I am Connie the LittleIndianGirl, and I approve this method. *patriotic music*

Also take into consideration the environment in which the snake hunts in the wild, and open area where the snake is most likely completely hidden and can ambush the prey (or completely ignore it). In captivity when the rat decides to fight back, the snake can't flee and sometimes gets chewed up. I'm not against feeding live, but it has to be done with alot of care and supervision.

My snakes will usually constrict an f/t mouse just as much as a live mouse.

I do not buy the whole feeding f/t or pre-killed isn't fair to your snake. If you do not think that is fair then how its it fair that you are keeping them caged as a pet?

I'm not entirely sure if snakes benefit from envoriment enrichment in the same way mammals do, but I found this quote here
http://www.colchester-zoo.com/index....rich.technique

"Enrichment for Snakes - Quite possibly the hardest of all reptiles to enrich due to the fact that they will sleep 16 hours a day and if digesting a meal may sometimes lay motionless for days. There are, however, forms of enrichment that we have tried.

Scenting around the enclosure prior to feeding increases activity in the snakes.

Offering hiding places around the enclousre using soil and down pipes as well as hollowed out logs. Canopy branching, has also been used. It is best for arboreal species, such as the Madagascan tree boa. Not only does it provide snakes with more natural surrounding and interesting smells, it also encourages them to climb more. They appear to feel safer amongst foliage and are actually more visible for visitors. Branches used include willow, eucalyptus and poplar. The only disadvantage is that the foliage tends to dry out quickly and needs replacing regularly.

All of our snakes are fed from long canes or tongs, most are fed dead rodents. With all the species we try and make their feeding as exciting as possible by simulating live prey. This is simply done by shaking the food item to encourage the snake to strike but also once taken to still fight with the food to get the snake to constrict its prey."

I feed all of my snakes f/t. I move the prey around for them with tongs. They all watch the prey as I move it as if it were live, they all strike it as they would if it were live, they all constrict it as if it were live. There really isn't much of a difference.

I have approx 45 adult/subadult snakes
In 5 years i've only had to feed 3 of these live, they are Balls
and had previously been fed live and were tough to switch over to ft, but they made the change with a little work.
I can totally understand the bigger breeders raising on live, but for me, its not needed.
having said that, when i start producing balls in numbers, i'm sure the odd live will be required.
Also lifes a lot easier with a freezer full of rodents.
My wife puts up with a lot, losing the spare bedroom etc, but she hates the live thing.
Finally if you want a 'Natural' environment for your animals, give them a couple of acres of bush land -)