Market crashers

Yeah, every time I ask about a snake price at all, almost every time they assume I'm trying to breed it. I guess a large percentage of the reptile owning community are also breeders and we're all breeding and selling to each other. There is almost no "end consumer" like a normal market.

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Originally Posted by Dave763

Why is it that everything is going up in price,gas,food,ect.,while at the same time I see people lowering the price on thier animals? It makes no sense to me.:confused:
I guess its just supply and demand. More small breeders(like me) flooding the market with pastels,spiders pins,ect. I understand that. But even recessive's have come down quite a bit in the last year.

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Its the same in the uk.

Didnt help that Bob clarke came over seeling a lod of his for dirt cheap.... putting uk breeders totally out of buisness i should imagine.. I will always support local breeders first.
Cant entirely blame bob... if uk people werent so tight... they would buy from their own first
I cant believe how cheap
the morphs have gone, i dont really agree with it either... As with all things in life... theres the things everyone can afford... but its still nice to ghave things you cant... gives you something to work towards or dream after if that makes sense

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

A little late in this thread, but "supply and demand" is only the big picture here. The "pet market" for morphs is very VERY small. The more rare the morph, the greater the odds potential buyers intend on breeding it and selling the offspring. While pet owners make up a large portion of the ball python market as a whole, the overwhelming majority are owners of relatively affordable snakes (normals, and to a lesser degree, pastels, spiders etc). The average guy or gal isn't going to spend $2000 on a pet snake.

As someone mentioned above... it's a bit of a pyramid right now. The big breeder sells his morph for $10,000 to the medium breeder. The medium breeder sells his morph for $5000 to the small breeder. It goes on and on and on, until morph prices finally drop to the point that Joe Schmo who has no interest in breeding is willing to pay the price.

So if you are just getting into the breeding market, keep your expectations low. Look at the prices corns go for to get an idea where the market may eventually head.

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That's exactly how I explained it to someone the other day. It's very much like a Pyramid Scheme. But I also think the market is headed to be more Pet Owner-friendly than Breeder friendly. I am one of the hobby breeders, so I can sit back & watch what happens. I would never dream of contributing to the price decreases, but I am also realistic & understand that BP morphs are going to drop in price. & those breeders with strategic business plans, interesting projects (such as triple hets, etc.), excellent customer service, & healthy stock, are the only ones that will remain in the game as the BP breeding craze starts to level off.

What this means is that pet owners who are now restricted to owning only normals, will be able to pick from Pastels, Spiders, Pinstripes, etc.

& let's face it, BP breeding is not for everyone. It is labor-intensive, & somewhat financially draining if you don't have the resources.

Its only going to get worse with the economy the way it is. The rich are going to get richer (buying morphs for dirt cheap and then breeding them) and the poor are going to get poorer (a lot of money invested and will have to sell all their babies cheap and possibly their breeders just to pay the bills)

I have no knowledge of the US market, except from what I see in the forums. So I may be tottaly wrong.

But, from a distance, it seems that BP morphs are like weekly newspapers (where one day in a newpaper = one year in BP breeding): everybody wants them in the first day; a few still reads them in the next 2, and after 3-4 days, people are just waiting for the next edition.
And it looks like the "daily newspaper" era is coming...

And I still don´t understand if the breeders are responding to this or contributiing to this with what seems to be an obsession to create new morphs.

If the breeders create 5-6 (or 10-15, who knows) new morphs every year, the breeders are decreasing the price of all the other morphs (thus decreasing the value of their own stock). But probably, there is no way to stop that wagon, because most likely that´s what the market-that-can-afford-morphs ultimately wants...

And how can you keep up with the hundreds of BP moprhs??

People don´t seem to go for the nicest snakes but for the newest morphs, no matter how they look. Some people don´t buy animals anymore, they "increase collections".

I think this sums it up:

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

Look at the prices corns go for to get an idea where the market may eventually head.

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On a curious note, the same is being discussed by the (US) Chondro breeders. And they are looking at the BP market...

One thing I think is a problem, is all the ugly morphs that are being made. more and more people are getting into the hobby just to breed, and are buying the cheapest/ dirt worthy snakes. These are reproducing and less and less high quality snakes are being hatched out. I just spent $700 on a 08 male spider, I did not even bother to ask what he wanted for it, and offered that price, because I wanted it that bad because of the quality. Some people call me crazy for it ( you know who you are:P) but I think thats what a good looking spider is worth. If You look into my collection you will not find the cheapest/brownest morph I could find, you will find the best of the best, which everyone should do but they do not. Selectively breed people! The better a morph looks, the longer it will hold its value imo. Just because you find a cheap adult female that is ugly as sin does not make it a good deal, because you will regret it when you cannot sell your ugly baby's. I have more to say to this, but I have to go!

:twocents:

Originally Posted by jhall1468
Look at the prices corns go for to get an idea where the market may eventually head.

Could be wrong, but I don't think this will ever happen. In my opinion ball pythons will never be close to being as cheap as corn snakes. Reason I say this is ball pythons have smaller clutches, and cost a lot more money to make when you factor in everything.

time will tell i guess.

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

I just spent $700 on a 08 male spider, I did not even bother to ask what he wanted for it, and offered that price, because I wanted it that bad because of the quality.

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$700! :O

That's what they were going for back in 2006!!

you could have gotten 1.2 or 1.3 spiders for $700 in todays market!!

You could have gotten a lesser and a spider and made lesser bees for $700!


But either way... you got the animal "you" wanted which is the most important thing... I bet alot of people are still wishing they got $700 for their spiders though... :P

It's all about Supply and Demand...

Right now there is a bigger than ever demand... but at the same time a HUGE supply of base morphs.

Right now everything is ALL about QUALITY... and your 2-3-4 Gene animals.

As far as these threads titled "Market Crashers" or
"the sky is falling"... nothing is falling and the market isn't crashing. Right now the market is bigger than ever and breeders still cannot produce enough animals to sell year over year.

Just ask any of the "Big Dogs" :)

One thing to keep in mind.....as all the "new" morphs take hold in collections the old standbys will fade out some, then as time moves on the oldies will become the top dollar morphs again as all the breeders moved on to the "newer" and "better" morphs. Some value loss is to be expected anyway. Its only worth a ton of money if only a handful are available, supply and demand, as already stated.

The buyer sets the price anyway, you wanna see the morph prices go up, be willing to pay more.