Het Pied "Markers"--Fact or Fiction?

OK, heres a good one for you. I've got a het pied male that I got from Ralph. He does NOT have the het pied markers. I bred him to a normal female, who also does NOT have the het pied markers. I hatched 3 babies from the eggs she produced. All of them were male, but 2 of the 3 DID have the het pied markers, even though the parents don't..... Now explain THAT one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkS

OK, heres a good one for you. I've got a het pied male that I got from Ralph. He does NOT have the het pied markers. I bred him to a normal female, who also does NOT have the het pied markers. I hatched 3 babies from the eggs she produced. All of them were male, but 2 of the 3 DID have the het pied markers, even though the parents don't..... Now explain THAT one.

---

Ahah... Fascinating.... :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkS

OK, heres a good one for you. I've got a het pied male that I got from Ralph. He does NOT have the het pied markers. I bred him to a normal female, who also does NOT have the het pied markers. I hatched 3 babies from the eggs she produced. All of them were male, but 2 of the 3 DID have the het pied markers, even though the parents don't..... Now explain THAT one.

---

I think your situation would be an illustration that the markers are not tied to individual animal, sire or dame but are the usual expression of the heterozygous trait.

So even if your het pied does not have them, its het pied offspring will still usually have the marker because that is the most common expression.

Basically it has nothing to do with mom or dad, it has to do with het pieds, which in most cases display the marker trait regardless.

Whatcha think?

Justin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jkobylka

Basically it has nothing to do with mom or dad, it has to do with het pieds, which in most cases display the marker trait regardless.

---

It will be interesting to note which ones in that batch that I posted are actually het pieds...

Some of them don't have the markers either..

But do the ones with markers out of a het pied clutch always prove out, is the better question???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jkobylka

I think your situation would be an illustration that the markers are not tied to individual animal, sire or dame but are the usual expression of the heterozygous trait.

So even if your het pied does not have them, its het pied offspring will still usually have the marker because that is the most common expression.

Basically it has nothing to do with mom or dad, it has to do with het pieds, which in most cases display the marker trait regardless.

Whatcha think?

Justin

---

Makes sense to me, another thing to note is that the father is pretty banded, so I wonder if that makes a difference on the pattern of the markers?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LadyOhh

But do the ones with markers out of a het pied clutch always prove out, is the better question???

---

That really is the real question...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkS

Makes sense to me, another thing to note is that the father is pretty banded, so I wonder if that makes a difference on the pattern of the markers?

---

I think that any time there is a genetic pattern morph at work it can certainly affect markers. The only experience I really have is with pastels, they certainly do not show markers the same way or as strongly because the pastel tends to clear the belly of pattern.

Justin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkS

OK, heres a good one for you. I've got a het pied male that I got from Ralph. He does NOT have the het pied markers. I bred him to a normal female, who also does NOT have the het pied markers. I hatched 3 babies from the eggs she produced. All of them were male, but 2 of the 3 DID have the het pied markers, even though the parents don't..... Now explain THAT one.

---

I'm in a similar situation...

I actually sought Justin's help via PM's with a ton of questions and he was a tremendous help! :) *Thanks again Justin*

My het pieds that do NOT have the markers:
(I have no reason to believe that they aren't hets, but I was not the original buyer... so I'm considering them both possibles for now)...
Produced 5 babies. One was a severely deformed and didn't make it through hatching... but out of the 4 that I have, they have markers... some not very strong, but still interesting!
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...2008/1HbxR.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...2008/2HBxR.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...2008/3HBxR.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...2008/4HbXr.jpg

More food for thought! :D

I love that we're getting all of this collaboration! Just people sharing their experience, gathering it collectively and hopefully coming to conclusions... ;) This is what makes bp.net great!

Justin

Can someone explain to a noob what the markers are?

Another question, too. There is a normal ball at PetSmart near me that has a white spot on him. He is all normal till this spot near his tail and it stands out like crazy. Deformity? Something special? I wasnt sure what to make of it. Maybe I will take a pic tonight and show it.

Something to consider, i have heard many people say they have normals that have the markers and that these animals are not hets. While this may be true, you really dont know if your "normals" are not hets unless you breed them to pied stock to find out.

There have been a few people who have produced surprise pieds from import females that have markers.

I have two females that have markers, and produce babies with markers. I have one older female with markers , who's duaghter with markers just gave me a clutch , some of wich had the markers, clearly passing the markers along for three generations, Now if onky I would not have sold my pied!

Nick