Are rack systems...cruel?

Allow me to offer my two cents on the switch from tank to tub:

I moved my BP to a tub after the display cage I got for her wasn't working right and I had already disinfected her tank and given it over to my adult ghost corn snake. The tub I got her is about 26"x15"x10" - the largest amount of floor space I could give her given my space restraints. This tub is almost the same size as her old 20L tank, but I've noticed she just doesn't cruise as much as she used to. I know my girl enjoys her nightly jaunt around the enclosure because it's always slow and easy, not frantic.

Ok, I rambled a bit there. But the point I was attempting to make was this: Every snake is different, and the only way to really know what yours prefers is try different methods. I now know that my girl really prefers her space to roam, while my little rescue guy so far seems to prefer nice tight spaces (once he's out of QT, I'll be trying him in a snug tub to see if he prefers that over his 10gal tank).
Some snakes love the 'cramped' and 'bare' quarters of a rack tub and thrive in those conditions, where others really love space and decor to slither around on. It's all about that particular snake and the environment that they do best in.

Why on earth is it cruel to keep snakes in tubs/racks? I house mine in tubs, and each tub is a climate-controlled environment that gives the snake ample room to hide, stretch out, drink water, eat, mate, lay eggs, shed, hide in a warm spot, hide in a cooler spot, let out some urate, and poop.
Snakes are Not mammals. Mammalian pets require mental stimulation.. without it boredom and the associated neurotic behaviors develop. I hate generalizing, but I can't think of Any mammalian animal that this does not apply to. Horses, cats (although they would prefer sleeping much of the time, in many cases..) dogs.. rats.. cattle. They all need mental stimulation. Bad habits will result if they are not given this.. chewing in dogs.. weaving and cribbing in horses. Feather plucking in birds even. The fact that these animals react negatively when not given sufficient interaction with either human caretakers, members of their species or other compatible animals, or "toys" leads me to believe.. it is "cruel" to deprive them of such.
I have never seen a BP become neurotic or go off-feed because it was not handled regularly and was kept in a temperature-and-size-appropriate tub!
Now.. BPs are not mammals or birds. They are creatures that rely on instinct to survive. They are not animals that play, romp, fetch, beg, or nuzzle like mammalian pets will. They don't need us handling them.. in fact, I think that human handling and meddling with BPs, is actually negative, because it causes stress. Maybe some snakes seem to "like" being out and their owners think that they are having "fun.." But reality is, they are probably either petrified, too hot, too cold, or trying to get away and find a place that is either warmer, cooler, or safer in general than being exposed in our hands like a fish on a platter. Whenever I handle my snakes, they are always either trying to get into my shirt (where it's warm, lol..) trying to get away (my Spider is famous for that one) or balled up in a scared fashion.
So.. if keeping many BPs in tubs in racks is so bad.. someone should inform Ralph Davis.. among other big, successful breeders.. and many of our forum members that despite our/their snakes breeding, feeding, shedding and existing great, we are doing it wrong!
And.. if people are upset that tubs are not natural.. how natural are glass tanks! Maybe less synthetic in chemical makeup when compared to tubs.. :)

Normally I hate to argue, especially with opinions. But this time, I feel the need to speak on this one.

No, snakes are not mammals, and do not need the CONSTANT stimulation that other such creatures do... However, they do have brains and those brains deserve to be stimulated. Even the 'zombie mouse dance' with a FT food item is a form of stimulation. They don't need toys and playtime, no. But they do need something that makes them "feel alive" for lack of a better phrase.

Good example: Snakes in zoos. Yes, they are in captivity. And yes, the zoos have limited space for the exhibits. Back at the zoo I worked and trained at, the snake house was an old building (with renovation plans) with really small enclosures. But still, those enclosures have water, branches, leaves... things that give the snakes something to interact with. True, those enclosures were also displays, but the same thing existed in the back rooms and QT cages. There were still objects in the cages, to a lesser degree of course, that were intended to give stimulation to the animals.

Just because snakes don't do a quarter of the things other animals do, and don't need the same amounts of stimulation, does not mean that they shouldn't have anything.

Well everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. As long as the snakes are doing fine and the needed parameters are being met, I don't really mind how people keep them.
I don't like extra objects in my BP cages, for several reasons. One, these snakes are rather heavily-bodied and if they're climbing on things, they could fall and injure themselves. Tree pythons they are not. Now, take a snake like a tree boa. If someone deprived that snake of having ample air-space and climbing objects, that'd upset me. But tree snakes eat, breed, and spend most of their time in trees.. that is their natural niche in the environment, and they need that in captivity. Since BPs by nature are ground-dwelling burrow-inhabitants, this is what I simulate in my low tubs.

:) No problems there. I just meant doing things like adding greenery to give them things to move around and under. I don't put branches in anymore, except the occasional driftwood 'log' for texture stimulation.

My corns, on the other hand, all have climbing structures of some sort even in tubs because they enjoy a bit of height. :)

I would just like to add that it is my personal belief that an animal gets used to different atmospheres and environments that allow for varying tolerances for certain things. Such as display cages with lots of stuff and very open, or a nice snug tub. What an animal is used to helps determine it's comfort and health within that environment - change is what causes stress until the animal can acclimate, if it can/will. This goes for any animal no matter the species. From fish and reptiles to cats and dogs.

I don't hold anything against people using tubs or showy display cages - if the animals are healthy and well acclimated to the enclosure then I see nothing wrong with either way. Unless the animal recieves no stimulation or is poorly kept etc.

To add.. I do think that it must be within the basic limits for the general requirements and comfort level of the species. Such as not putting a hatchling BP in a 100gal with hardly any cover.

Cruel? Who knows? What i never understood is the people who buy a $1000 plus snake and put it in a 41qt tub:rofl:

Myself i use animal plastic T3's:gj:

You do know the definition of cruel right?

cru·el –adjective, -er, -est.
1. willfully or knowingly causing pain or distress to others.
2. enjoying the pain or distress of others: the cruel spectators of the gladiatorial contests.
3. causing or marked by great pain or distress: a cruel remark; a cruel affliction.
4. rigid; stern; strict; unrelentingly severe.

I don't see how any of these apply to people who love their animals and do everything in their power to see that their animals thrive. :confuzd:

a snake will not know the difference between a 3'x2' area of plastic or a 3'x2' area of glass. what the snake is enclosed in is ultimately the preference of the snake's keeper.
people keep balls in rack tubs because they generally do much better in there than a 120 gal tank. balls hide all day, even the $5000 dollar pretty ones. let's face it, balls dont make the best display snakes. but if you have a $5000 snake, then youre going to want to make damn sure it lives so you may want to keep it in a tub for various reasons. sure a ball python can have a good life in a 100 gal tank if all the conditions are met but it is still going to hide all day and when it does come out at night, 90% of the tank volume will not be used.
if you really want to use a 100 gal tank to display a snake then why not go with a JCP or ETB. at least when your friends come over during daylight you can say "look at my snake sleeping on the branch in the open" instead of "well its daytime and the snake is sleeping somewhere in there".
in the end i know that my snakes are all healthy and happy the way i do things and i hope all yours are as well. i am totally against animal cruelty and i think keeping a snake inside a tank with a heat lamp or pad without a digital thermometer and hygrometer is cruel and keeping snakes in rack systems inside temperature controlled rooms with thermostats wired to flexwatt and uv bulbs on timers is not.
we all know that heat plays a major role on reptiles health and if you dont invest $5 on a digital thermometer then no matter how much room your animal has, you are knowingly causing pain or distress to your reptile. isnt that the definition of cruel??