live or frozen mice?

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Small rats' teeth are too soft to inflict a wound...clearly you have never been bitten by one.

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I'm bitten by my 4-6 week old rats ALL the time, and yet, not a one has broken the skin yet, my skin - that's not protected by scales.

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I prefer to go with medium rats for the large snakes, because they have fully developed skeletons, and it's more economical to feed one medium rat rather than 2 small ones.

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I don't see a need to feed 2 small ones - one small one a week is more than enough food each week - it's certainly more than their wild cousins get each year (52 small rats a year).

Again, it's perfectly fine that you choose to feed frozen, and in your OPINION it's safter than live - I, and many others here just happen to disagree with you on the level of danger you want to present for feeding live. I would even hazard to say that the majority of the people here who feed live don't feed larger than small/small rats, because it's just not necessary to feed any larger.

If the danger is as inherent as you want us to believe, then why have I fed off over 2000 live prey items with NO injuries, no bites, no scratches on a single one of my animals? Even if I had ONE bite or scratch in all that time. that would be a .0005% incidence. Not even a 1/2 of a percentage of bites. From my personal experience with my own collection, the risk is minimal at best.

Adam, how many live prey items have you fed off in the last 10 years would you say? And how many injuries as a result? I believe the last time you reported on it, it was none.

Where is the inherent risk? I'm just not seeing it. :confuzd:

I'm not telling people to go out and feed live - but at the same token, I won't sit back and let the f/t feeders try to convince people that feeding live is inherently dangerous when it's not been my experience and the experience of countless other live feeders.

I tend to side with the F/T crowd.

Story time ... my friend had a nice corn snake that recieved a bite from a mouse. He cleaned the wound and it healed over and all seemed well. However, the mouse's bite had actually bit right through the the flesh and punctured the snake's lung, which lead to IR and death eventually.

Like everyone else has said though, it is what works best for you. Just remember to be responsible whether you choose to feed F/T or live and you should not have problems either way.

PS - With my collection growing at what seems like a weekly rate, i will most likely switch over to live mice in the future as well. As Adam mentioned above, feeding a large collection of reptiles F/T is very time consuming, and simply not possible at a certain point.

Robin

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Originally Posted by Dr_Gonz0

I tend to side with the F/T crowd.

Story time ... my friend had a nice corn snake that recieved a bite from a mouse. He cleaned the wound and it healed over and all seemed well. However, the mouse's bite had actually bit right through the the flesh and punctured the snake's lung, which lead to IR and death eventually.

Like everyone else has said though, it is what works best for you. Just remember to be responsible whether you choose to feed F/T or live and you should not have problems either way.

PS - With my collection growing at what seems like a weekly rate, i will most likely switch over to live mice in the future as well. As Adam mentioned above, feeding a large collection of reptiles F/T is very time consuming, and simply not possible at a certain point.

Robin

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In that case why not make the switch from mice to rats as well. Personally ( i dont want to start another huge argument or anything) i think rats are a lot safer than mice, because a small rat is less likely to bite your snake than a mouse. Not only this but breeding mice is harder and stinkier than rats.... I breed rats and feed live, and my bp's couldnt be any happier.

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Originally Posted by juddb

In that case why not make the switch from mice to rats as well. Personally ( i dont want to start another huge argument or anything) i think rats are a lot safer than mice, because a small rat is less likely to bite your snake than a mouse. Not only this but breeding mice is harder and stinkier than rats.... I breed rats and feed live, and my bp's couldnt be any happier.

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I have no choice in the matter, they are not available here. I live in the province of Alberta, located in western Canada and rats are outlawed here ... seriously, we have a rat patrol that checks farms along the Alberta borders. You can get a license to breed rats here, but they can not be sold live.

Robin

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Originally Posted by Dr_Gonz0

I have no choice in the matter, they are not available here. I live in the province of Alberta, located in western Canada and rats are outlawed here ... seriously, we have a rat patrol that checks farms along the Alberta borders. You can get a license to breed rats here, but they can not be sold live.

Robin

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Thats horrible. :mad: Sorry man :oops:

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Originally Posted by juddb

Thats horrible. :mad: Sorry man :oops:

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Yea, and seeing as I rent a townhouse, I think my landlord would be less than impressed to find me breeding rats in my basement. Heck, i am sure they would freak if they found out i was breeding reptiles to begin with ... lol.

Robin

For me it comes down to mostly the knowledge and skill of the snake's owner. You can do harm to your snake feeding any method incorrectly. There's no way to definitively say "this method is better than this method" when there are so many variables coming into play.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

For me it comes down to mostly the knowledge and skill of the snake's owner. You can do harm to your snake feeding any method incorrectly. There's no way to definitively say "this method is better than this method" when there are so many variables coming into play.

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Exactly, it comes down to being responsible when feeding, whether you are using F/T or live prey. If using F/T, make sure it is prepared properly, and if going the live route, observe the feeding to make sure there is no injuries to your snake(s). :)

Robin

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

The size of the prey item people choose to offer is another one of those things that has multiple answers. I prefer to go with medium rats for the large snakes, because they have fully developed skeletons

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A medium rat has a more fully developed skeleton than a small rat? I don't think so.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

and it's more economical to feed one medium rat rather than 2 small ones.

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More economical for whom? Not me. Besides, a medium rat is way too much food to feed to an adult ball python weekly.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Plus, if they are frozen, they can't bite. Feeding 2 small live rats just means 2 chances for the snake to receive a bite, instead of one.

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I've never had a snake bitten by a rodent and I feed a fairly large collection every week ... it just doesn't work the same way you seem to advocate. I open the tub, the snake comes out, rodent is placed on tongs and put in front of the snake, rodent is dead ... no bites, scratches, maulings, etc ... it's really pretty simple.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Baby mice and rats are lower in calcium. (This concerns me enough that I actually dip young rodents in a bit of calcium supplement after I get my snakes eating them regularly).

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This is totally unnecessary. Appropriately sized rodents have everything a snake needs to survive. I've been raising snakes for a very long time now and calcium supplements are not needed for ball pythons. Unless you have some literature describing exactly how much calcium a ball python needs per feeding that I don't know about?

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

I'm still not seeing the ADVANTAGE to feeding live--for the snake.

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Some snakes will not eat F/T period ... there's advantage number one.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

The disadvantages still stand.

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Those are your "disadvantages", not mine ... I know that live feeding can be done safely and I do it week in and week out with a very large group of ball pythons. If you'd ever like to come to Maryland and spend the day and a half it takes to feed my collection learning how to feed live safely, you're more than welcome.

-adam

I personally have most of mine on f/t. I do it because it's easier for me. Buying live animals is expensive compared to buying f/t in bulk. And I have no desire to raise my own rats/mice - between life and my snakes I already have my hands full taking care of what I have now; a rodent colony is too much trouble.

That being said, if you feed live responsibly there is really no danger to your snake. It's people who are stupid about it that give it a bad wrap.