Man this stuff is just disturbing...

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Personally Jen I don't advocate restraining a live prey item in any way during the feeding process. I believe if you feed the right size rat, that is itself well fed, full hydrated and unstressed to a snake quite capable of hunting live, there should not be a problem. Restraining a living prey item will make it freaky and likely cause it to be more aggressive IMHO.

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I agree Joanna, I don't restrain any live prey, ever. If it looks like the mouse/rat is biting the snake, I don't interfere, the snakes just constrict tighter and the prey can't bite. I've never had one bite injury, scratch, or any wound and I've estimated that I've easily fed over 2000 live prey items.

I'd only dangle prey if I were feeding pre-killed or frozen thawed, but never live!

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Personally Jen I don't advocate restraining a live prey item in any way during the feeding process. I believe if you feed the right size rat, that is itself well fed, full hydrated and unstressed to a snake quite capable of hunting live, there should not be a problem. Restraining a living prey item will make it freaky and likely cause it to be more aggressive IMHO.

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I agree 100%

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

So does it happen or doesn't it? If there isn't even a mark, is it really a bite or just the mouses mouth coming into contact with the snake?

On a more general note (for what it's worth), I fed over 500 ball pythons live rats and mice 6 days ago and not a single one was bit, scratched, or chewed to shreds .... same as it goes every week for me .... imagine that. :sweeet:

-adam

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So I'm not making any sort of value judgement about feeding live - I"m only giving an account of what happened to me. I feed my two pythons live and plan on continuing to do so. I was only saying that there was what I consdered to be a tense situation that occurred to me. Perhaps Snakey was in less danger than I thought - its impossible to tell because I intervened. He came out of it w/o a scratch so I consider it a success.

As stories go, here's another one: One of the guys that works at the exotics store I go to has several snakes. When I was in there buying my new baby corn he was talking about wanting to order piglets online for his retic. I asked why he didn't feed live and he said because he had a corn snake once that died. He fed the thing a mouse and it managed to swing around and deliver a bite on the snake's spine right behind the head. His snake started flopping around and then promptly died. (That's when I decided to feed my corn F/T because corns just don't seem to be as strong as pythons).

You know, some people drive a car all their lives without a single incident and the vast majority of people never experience anything more than a fender bender. And then there's the occasional person that get's killed or hideously injured.

So, I think its fair to say that everytime you feed live there is a chance that just about anything could happen. It may be a small risk but its there, just like most things we do in life.

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Originally Posted by bearhart

As stories go, here's another one: One of the guys that works at the exotics store I go to has several snakes. When I was in there buying my new baby corn he was talking about wanting to order piglets online for his retic. I asked why he didn't feed live and he said because he had a corn snake once that died. He fed the thing a mouse and it managed to swing around and deliver a bite on the snake's spine right behind the head. His snake started flopping around and then promptly died. (That's when I decided to feed my corn F/T because corns just don't seem to be as strong as pythons).

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Now I don't have the experience of someone that works in an exotics store or anything fancy like that, but in my life I've kept a snake or two and that sounds to me like a case of a corn snake being fed a live animal that was entirely too large for it to handle. Not too smart.

If you drive at 120 miles per hours from traffic light to traffic light you've got accident written all over you. ;)

:sweeet:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Now I don't have the experience of someone that works in an exotics store or anything fancy like that, but in my life I've kept a snake or two and that sounds to me like a case of a corn snake being fed a live animal that was entirely too large for it to handle. Not too smart.

If you drive at 120 miles per hours from traffic light to traffic light you've got accident written all over you. ;)

:sweeet:

-adam

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I don't know alot about you, but I don't doubt you have vastly more experience than myself and my friend put together. And, you're correct in pointing out that my snake wasn't actually injured. I'll retract my statement that "it happens". If you think there is no risk to feeding live then that's great. I won't have to worry about my boys. :cool:

What about feeding birds to large pythons? Is there a significant risk of eye injury from the beak?

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Originally Posted by bearhart

I don't know alot about you, but I don't doubt you have vastly more experience than myself and my friend put together. And, you're correct in pointing out that my snake wasn't actually injured. I'll retract my statement that "it happens". If you think there is no risk to feeding live then that's great. I won't have to worry about my boys. :cool:

What about feeding birds to large pythons? Is there a significant risk of eye injury from the beak?

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Two points that I'd like to make ...

1. No where have I ever said that there is no risk of feeding live. There is a right way and a wrong way to do EVERYTHING in life. Live feeding can be just as safe as any other feeding method if done properly.

2. When I owned large boids I never had the need to feed them birds and never would if I did. The stuff that comes out as a result of feeding fowl is foul. ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Two points that I'd like to make ...

1. No where have I ever said that there is no risk of feeding live. There is a right way and a wrong way to do EVERYTHING in life. Live feeding can be just as safe as any other feeding method if done properly.

2. When I owned large boids I never had the need to feed them birds and never would if I did. The stuff that comes out as a result of feeding fowl is foul. ;)

-adam

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Is there a page or something you can point me to with tips for safe live feeding?"

With the fowl thing, I've read some posts suggesting health benefits from fowl to certain pythons - particularly those that would have some in their diet in the wild. This got me thinking about my JCP. Another very experienced herper I know was so-so on the idea. I got the impression he wouldn't personally bother but he did say its probably a good idea to feed them a rounded diet.

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Originally Posted by bearhart

Is there a page or something you can point me to with tips for safe live feeding?"

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I posted here on bp.net once the methods I've used for feeding live to hundreds of ball pythons every week for over a decade without one bite, scratch, or mauling ... it shouldn't be too hard for someone to dig up.

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Originally Posted by bearhart

With the fowl thing, I've read some posts suggesting health benefits from fowl to certain pythons - particularly those that would have some in their diet in the wild. This got me thinking about my JCP. Another very experienced herper I know was so-so on the idea. I got the impression he wouldn't personally bother but he did say its probably a good idea to feed them a rounded diet.

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I've kept just about every species of python at one point or another in my life and they all do just fine on a 100% rodent diet.

-adam

Hi,


Sorry for the delay Adam - the search function seems to be in a bad mood today and refused to show me what I wanted.

This was the only one it would condecend to share with me and even then I had to trawl the thread manually Grrrr.

Hope this helps you help.:P


dr del

Bear, no one can or would say live feeding is not without risks. So is frozen/thawed if you don't defrost properly. So is pre-killed if you only manage to stun the rodent and it wakes up hurt and highly defensive. Whether it's your snake, your kids or yourself, being alive is about being at some sort of risk pretty much constantly. The deal for me, with the snakes or in fact with the kids, is calculating risk factors and setting up situations where the risks are recognized and managed as best one can without living in constant fear of those risks occurring.